Propaganda in Everyday American Life

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
65,537
26,129
Colorado
#21
It comes so frequently from conservatives that it is impossible to combat the tidal wave of propaganda. Most worrisome is that some messaging contains an element of truth that must be separated from the falsehoods.
It is a travesty. Seems to me, the FBI should get on top of this. Certainly, there's a party angle to it, in this case ostensibly it's the Rs lying about the Ds for political gain. That's the obvious.

Foreign powers could use this tactic to simply amplify political divisions, create a more chaotic America.
 
Dec 2016
4,637
2,383
Canada
#22
I have noticed that we are getting a lot of interesting propaganda from the Right during the Era of Trump.
What exactly is "deep state", "mainstream media", or, as Limbaugh likes to say "drive-by media"?
What exactly is "fake news" if news is merely the accurate reporting of events? Seems like an oxymoron.

Have you noticed that only conservatives seem to know intuitively what these terms really mean but can never define them?

It is like a secret code of a forbidden, arcane club. Or Klub is you consider the secret "k" words of the KKK.
Ku Klux Klan titles and vocabulary - Wikipedia
First, tell me where the terms "fake news" "deep state" or "mainstream media" are mentioned in your Wikipedia KKK source?

And that's all that needs to be said about your bullshit thread here insinuating that everyone who uses terms like 'deep state' ( to label UNELECTED-near permanent government officials who wield greater power behind the scenes than elected officials) or MSM (corporate owned media that varies from liberal centrist to conservative centrist in handling news and opinion) is extreme right...even part of the klan! What obscene insulting garbage you higher thinking liberals spew forth these days! It's not just the RIGHT...whatever you believe the right is; there is a left and it's getting larger and larger and less willing to make valueless compromises! US policy and opinion makers have long used the term "Deep State" to describe how governments function in nations that US officials declare are not sufficiently 'democratic.' It's just a surprise to some in high places now that the shoe fits how the USA is run also!

Anyone on the real left...and not the bullshit comfortable liberal middlezone, does not object to having any allies from other tendencies on particular issues! Case in point: without a small, but loud and dedicated collection of anarcho-capitalists and rightwing libertarians, there would have been no visible pushback against the Neocons and the War State since Obama took office 11 years ago! Most of the left followed the anyone but Bush mantra and were willing to support the Democratic Party candidate regardless of how vague and even counter-intuitive his few foreign policy arguments were at the time. Now, after Oh started even more wars and the Drone Bomber In Chief was replaced by an even worse Republican, we are told once again that we have to unite against the right...even though a lot of evidence would indicate that on many economic and foreign policy issues, the greatest evil is in the center of the political spectrum and neither right nor left....where people are more likely to actually stand by principles they believe in!

So, good luck trying to get everyone suckered in to supporting centrist neoliberal economic policies along with the usual bipartisan neoconservative geopolitics. Fewer people wil likely get suckered into another bullshit round of Everyone Has To Stop Trump than in 2016, if the DNC tries to force through Hillary 2.0 otherwise known as Kamala the Cop. And yes, Donald Trump is a potential fascist leader...even if not a strong or intelligent one. and the risks of having him in power are greater as the weeks and months roll by towards 2020.

In this interview with Paul Jay on the Real News Network back at the beginning of the month, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell - Lawrence Wilkerson, declares near the end of the interview, that when he went to Capitol Hill in February accompanying a peace delegation trying to lobby members to back a resolution ending US support for ongoing Saudi war crimes in Yemen, a couple of DOD officials he would not name asked him to stay behind to discuss what he thought of Trump and specifically what would be Trump's reactions or moves if a serious attempt was used to impeach him or remove him from office. Basically, would he go quietly like Richard Nixon or try to make all hell break loose to save his job. Wilkerson and his old friends in the Pentagon all seemed to believe that Trump is an especially dangerous leader, who would risk anything to try to thwart such a move, even calling on his irregular army of rightwing militia yahoos across America to raise havoc and demand the president be reinstated. So, most agree these are dangerous times. But who's fault is it that one side of the fake democracy hamstrung and prevented a real viable elected alternative to Trump from winning the Office? And if conditions for so many citizens are so miserable that they're willing to support fascist leaders, that's also an indicator that if Trump wasn't there, some other fascist....maybe a smarter and more capable one would be in the White House! A few historians believe that political and economic conditions people live with allow fascists to take power....so if it wasn't Adolph Hitler or Mussolini in Italy, it would have been someone else! The thing to do is change the conditions people have to live in, instead of supporting varying versions of the same hierarchal despotism.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2013
32,178
18,943
Beware of watermelons
#23
The last one:



That is a perfect example of how to effectively influence a lot of people on the cheap with absolute fiction. There's no way to stop it without introducing censorship into the unalienable right of freedom of speech. That concept is pure contradiction, and yet, without some form of censorship, any enemy or commercial interest can cheaply and effectively shape people's opinions.

I know, i know... right. Kinda behind the times though.


20190310_002516.png


Russia bans memes 2015

www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/04/10/russia-just-made-a-ton-of-internet-memes-illegal/?utm_term=.44ea254d42a0




20190310_002447.png




Gay Putin memes now illegal

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/04/05/its-now-illegal-in-russia-to-share-an-image-of-putin-as-a-gay-clown/?utm_term=.0619228485d8




But we have been over this before
 
Nov 2018
2,596
1,212
Montana
#25
First, tell me where the terms "fake news" "deep state" or "mainstream media" are mentioned in your Wikipedia KKK source?

And that's all that needs to be said about your bullshit thread here insinuating that everyone who uses terms like 'deep state' ( to label UNELECTED-near permanent government officials who wield greater power behind the scenes than elected officials) or MSM (corporate owned media that varies from liberal centrist to conservative centrist in handling news and opinion) is extreme right...even part of the klan! What obscene insulting garbage you higher thinking liberals spew forth these days! It's not just the RIGHT...whatever you believe the right is; there is a left and it's getting larger and larger and less willing to make valueless compromises! US policy and opinion makers have long used the term "Deep State" to describe how governments function in nations that US officials declare are not sufficiently 'democratic.' It's just a surprise to some in high places now that the shoe fits how the USA is run also!

Anyone on the real left...and not the bullshit comfortable liberal middlezone, does not object to having any allies from other tendencies on particular issues! Case in point: without a small, but loud and dedicated collection of anarcho-capitalists and rightwing libertarians, there would have been no visible pushback against the Neocons and the War State since Obama took office 11 years ago! Most of the left followed the anyone but Bush mantra and were willing to support the Democratic Party candidate regardless of how vague and even counter-intuitive his few foreign policy arguments were at the time. Now, after Oh started even more wars and the Drone Bomber In Chief was replaced by an even worse Republican, we are told once again that we have to unite against the right...even though a lot of evidence would indicate that on many economic and foreign policy issues, the greatest evil is in the center of the political spectrum and neither right nor left....where people are more likely to actually stand by principles they believe in!

So, good luck trying to get everyone suckered in to supporting centrist neoliberal economic policies along with the usual bipartisan neoconservative geopolitics. Fewer people wil likely get suckered into another bullshit round of Everyone Has To Stop Trump than in 2016, if the DNC tries to force through Hillary 2.0 otherwise known as Kamala the Cop. And yes, Donald Trump is a potential fascist leader...even if not a strong or intelligent one. and the risks of having him in power are greater as the weeks and months roll by towards 2020.

In this interview with Paul Jay on the Real News Network back at the beginning of the month, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell - Lawrence Wilkerson, declares near the end of the interview, that when he went to Capitol Hill in February accompanying a peace delegation trying to lobby members to back a resolution ending US support for ongoing Saudi war crimes in Yemen, a couple of DOD officials he would not name asked him to stay behind to discuss what he thought of Trump and specifically what would be Trump's reactions or moves if a serious attempt was used to impeach him or remove him from office. Basically, would he go quietly like Richard Nixon or try to make all hell break loose to save his job. Wilkerson and his old friends in the Pentagon all seemed to believe that Trump is an especially dangerous leader, who would risk anything to try to thwart such a move, even calling on his irregular army of rightwing militia yahoos across America to raise havoc and demand the president be reinstated. So, most agree these are dangerous times. But who's fault is it that one side of the fake democracy hamstrung and prevented a real viable elected alternative to Trump from winning the Office? And if conditions for so many citizens are so miserable that they're willing to support fascist leaders, that's also an indicator that if Trump wasn't there, some other fascist....maybe a smarter and more capable one would be in the White House! A few historians believe that political and economic conditions people live with allow fascists to take power....so if it wasn't Adolph Hitler or Mussolini in Italy, it would have been someone else! The thing to do is change the conditions people have to live in, instead of supporting varying versions of the same hierarchal despotism.
The KKK link was merely an example of linguistic misbehavior. Where did I state that "deep state" or "mainstream media" was in the link?
Your explanation of the "deep state" really only underscores my point-- it is a vague and indefinable entity that only conservatives seem to understand and that knowledge is intuitive; similarly, your explanation of MSM is nebulous and inherently contradictory ( Faux news is not MSM but Huff Post is?). The Hate Media (Limbaugh network) is NOT mainstream media but NPR or NBC is "mainstream media"?

Overall, I find your rant to be a nice demonstration of the "flight of ideas" and "free associations" that is often seen among conservatives. It certainly seems like you have a lot of issues to work out.
 
Likes: RNG
Dec 2018
1,376
480
New England
#26
Folks, the days of traditional media controlling the narrative are long gone; if you doubt this ask Dan Rather.

If anything, our media today is too fractured, too scattered, and too siloed. One can tune into an echo chamber where it's either anti- or pro-Trump 24x7 with nary a differing opinion to be heard. In fact, if you're not regularly consuming content from at least two different and opposing media outlets you're almost certainly not getting the full story on anything.
 
Likes: imaginethat
Feb 2019
603
68
here and there
#27
It used to be that Walter Cronkite would come on the air and say, "And that's the way it is", and everyone would accept it as the gospel truth.

Thank God Americans have finally awakened and matured and realize now that propaganda is a never ending phenomenon. It is simply human nature. In fact, each of us has perfected our own sort of propaganda in order to present ourselves in a good light to everyone. We always put our best foot forward and hide the rest.
 
Dec 2015
14,628
13,533
Arizona
#28
It comes so frequently from conservatives that it is impossible to combat the tidal wave of propaganda. Most worrisome is that some messaging contains an element of truth that must be separated from the falsehoods.
An element of truth. AND WHOOP! There it is. It's the element of truth that sells the message, including the subliminal, the undisguised and the difficulty for future legal prosecution.
From 11/9: It's the same thing that authoritarians and fascists have done in the past. You need to make sure that when charges of corruption or other wrongdoing come forth (Because there was an element of truth in the statement) nobody believes the judiciary.
Trump repeatedly "suggests" or as Cohen says:
Michael Cohen said in testimony to Congress on Wednesday that President Donald Trump never directly ordered him to lie, but instead made his wishes clear by speaking in “code” understood by anyone who works with him.
“He doesn’t give you questions, he doesn’t give you orders, he speaks in code. And I understand the code because I’ve been around him for a decade,” testified Cohen, Trump’s former longtime personal attorney.

Read more here: Trump never told Cohen to lie — but suggested it by talking in code, Cohen says

Trump delights by beginning with "I like our intelligence agencies--I really do BUT..........." The discrediting begins. "The corruption at the top of the FBI". (But Trump believes Vladdy, Kimmie, Prince Sally). The witch hunt.
Then there's.....The press is corrupt. The press employs fake news. The press MUST BE discredited because they are dangerous to Trump. They are a threat.

Trump: "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."
People believe him, and this is, of course, puzzling to many of his critics, but if the strongman, the authoritarian, has done his job, he has bonded people to him a long time ago. Trump was doing that with his rallies and his loyalty oaths.
Trump: "Should we do the pledge? Raise your right hand. Do you pledge that on Tuesday, you will go.....to vote for Donald Trump tomorrow? Raise that hand." [his supporters cheer]

That's why I refer to Trump supporters as a cult. Cult leaders often demand testimonials or statements of loyalty from members. Trump followers are routinely asked to support increasingly difficult claims....or what the mainstream calls lies with an element of truth. But then the lies — or the alternative truths — must increase in preposterousness, Trump's rallies??
There's just a hint of how violence could benefit the president---just a morsel of how he could be president for life---just a teaspoon of "I will pay your legal fees if you knock the crap out of them".

Someone was asking about the LIES. Well, here it is---all within the cult mindset:
Within the cult, lying is seen as a virtue, more like Zen koans or teaching stories. “The leader was only lying to me on one level in order to teach me a deeper truth.” “The leader denied having sex with the child, because it wasn’t really ‘sex’ the way most people define it.” The virtue of lying, as insiders come to see it, is to cast doubt on the bigger lies enslaving us all.
The Trump Cult?
 
Feb 2019
603
68
here and there
#29
Those that complain about Trump never complained about Obama in terms of freedom of the press

Before Trump, Obama was an 'enemy of press freedom'

Obama was a bad boy, yet he still was awarded such things as "transparency awards" from the press, which just goes to show the partisanship within the press for the DNC.

After all, CNN was caught giving Hillary the debate questions before the debates. Their partisanship his legendary.
 

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