Question for socialists: what is socialism according to you?

Feb 2007
3,224
1,577
New York
#61
I believe your jellybean analogy should be expanded to candy. Jelly beans are as you described them, but they are candy. Some candies are round and some are oval. Round could represent ownership of the means of production, and oval could represent control of the means of production. They are both still candy.
I just realized that I didn't address your point.

Setting laws that protect the safety of others or the planet (our home) do not reasonably equal control of the production. If there are six steel mills in a state, they all have to conform to the OSHA safety standards for their workers and any local dumping laws, but they are still freely competing with each other. THAT is more like comparing jelly beans to an orange; there are clear boundaries, but the meat of the operational decisions and profit (juice?) go to the one that attracts the most and best customers.
 
Jun 2012
41,503
15,044
Barsoom
#62
I just realized that I didn't address your point.

Setting laws that protect the safety of others or the planet (our home) do not reasonably equal control of the production. If there are six steel mills in a state, they all have to conform to the OSHA safety standards for their workers and any local dumping laws, but they are still freely competing with each other. THAT is more like comparing jelly beans to an orange; there are clear boundaries, but the meat of the operational decisions and profit (juice?) go to the one that attracts the most and best customers.
I think we are veering away from my original argument regarding single payer insurance. Your argument is correct, but in a different context.
 
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Feb 2007
3,224
1,577
New York
#63
I think we as veering away from my original argument regarding single payer insurance. Your argument is correct, but in a different context.
The original question was about your opinion of what socialism is. We can certainly go back to discussing the single payer option.

A single payer option put in place in the US would quickly be followed by private insurance companies popping up to insure faster and better service. (Much in the same way that the public school system generates private schools). Is this socialism? It depends. Are you allowed to choose your hospitals and doctors or are they assigned? if you are choosing, there is still that free market element. The doctors are not having the equipment that they purchase redistributed to other medical offices. Are they being paid more for handling more clients or are the doctors being told their salary and how many people they are required to see each week?

A single payer option is not, in itself, socialist. There certainly are elements there, since the government would be collecting and distributing the funds, but there are too many variables to directly classify it without more information. In short, single payer, in itself, is not socialism.
 
Jun 2012
41,503
15,044
Barsoom
#64
The original question was about your opinion of what socialism is. We can certainly go back to discussing the single payer option.

A single payer option put in place in the US would quickly be followed by private insurance companies popping up to insure faster and better service. (Much in the same way that the public school system generates private schools). Is this socialism? It depends. Are you allowed to choose your hospitals and doctors or are they assigned? if you are choosing, there is still that free market element. The doctors are not having the equipment that they purchase redistributed to other medical offices. Are they being paid more for handling more clients or are the doctors being told their salary and how many people they are required to see each week?

A single payer option is not, in itself, socialist. There certainly are elements there, since the government would be collecting and distributing the funds, but there are too many variables to directly classify it without more information. In short, single payer, in itself, is not socialism.
My explaination was expounding on single payer as a component of socialism, which aligns with various historical definitions of socialism.
 
Apr 2013
34,979
23,673
Left coast
#65
Socialism, as most people know, is the replacement of capitalism by the rule of the vast working-class majority on the way to the elimination of classes altogether. Its economic nature is democratic control of the means of production, distribution and exchange
Although that is the true definition of socialism, it is not how it is colloquially used in N. America and I believe in most of Europe. In these areas it is used to describe actions by the government to assist people, usually people in the lower ranks of income. And also governmental regulation is often called socialism by the right wing.

In this colloquial sense, ownership of the means of production is not an issue.
 
Nov 2012
2,402
1,464
Rhondda
#67
Although that is the true definition of socialism, it is not how it is colloquially used in N. America and I believe in most of Europe. In these areas it is used to describe actions by the government to assist people, usually people in the lower ranks of income. And also governmental regulation is often called socialism by the right wing.

In this colloquial sense, ownership of the means of production is not an issue.
Well, as with 'Christianity', I can't be responsible for enemy definitions, which are, like Mr Corbyn's alleged anti-Semitism, purely imaginary or nonsensical. and intended to destroy decency. I first worked for socialism a great may years ago, and never knew any comrade who defined it differently, though careerists and scoundrels will do anything to sabotage it.
 
Nov 2012
5,668
3,398
Kekistan
#70
Pointless thread. Every example of Socialism on this planet that was truly tried has been an utter failure. Of course the "Socialists" will insist that was not true Socialism. Venezuela for example will be denied as being true Socialism by the Socialists because it failed.

Maybe the Nazi's should start insisting that true nationalism has never been tried as well.

Same coin opposite sides.
 
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