Re-framing the abortion discussion

Dec 2018
2,823
2,024
Wisconsin
I'm going to try to bridge a topic that hasn't been bridged for 40+ years.

What do pro-choice people want? They want individuals to have the opportunity to decide for themselves how to handle unplanned/unwanted pregnancies.
What do pro-life people want? They don't want to see the lives of unborn children taken away from unplanned/unwanted pregnancies.

But you know what I think both sides want? I think we want less unplanned/unwanted pregnancies.

So instead of arguing over what happens after a pregnancy, can we work together to ensure people who don't want to get pregnant don't get pregnant?

Can we make it easier to allow contraception to be distributed so people who want to have safe and responsible sex can do so?
Can we allow sex education to be STANDARD for late elementary and middle-school children so they understand the responsibility that comes with having sex?
Can we make alternative educational paths more readily accessible for single mothers so if they do have a child on their own their opportunity at a future is not greatly impacted?
Can we make it so the father of the child is required to pay child support from the moment of conception, no questions asked (if you're going to tell me it's a life from the moment of conception, I'm going to tell you the father needs to support the child from conception NO MATTER WHAT)?

Let's face facts. People are going to continue to have sex. We can't prevent it. And legal or not, people are going to get abortions. We can't prevent it. So can we reduce the number of abortions without implementing abortion laws?

IDK
 
Nov 2013
2,638
1,141
NM
Yes, put the birth control information & devices & possibly meds out there, certainly @ the high school level, maybe sooner - if there's a need there. That's the pragmatic option, & maybe we can get a handle on sexually transmitted diseases @ the same time, as part of the same effort. The hardcore anti-abortion factions, however, claim that the dissemination of this information (let alone the devices &/or meds) will irreparably harm the poor innocent babes who have no idea of sexuality, nor curiosity; that it would harm their immortal souls & lead to a life of depravity & a fate worse than death, & so on & so forth.

Apparently the lives of aborted unwanted fetuses are a kind of sacrifice to a dark & hungry God. An updated kind of Aztec sacrifice - presumably to sustain the boundless love & grace of the Almighty. & so the misery & stunting of education & career opportunities is the price our children, especially the women, are to pay so that the rest of us can feel respectable.

Are you not entertained?
 
Mar 2019
2,574
590
Texas
Most all the things you mention should be done by both sides first before attempting to change the other rules. It should be first on any bill or debate.

Men and women need to recognize that sex is a contract when it results in pregnancy. As with any contract there is a grace period and just a few reason after that to dissolve the contract.
 
Dec 2018
2,823
2,024
Wisconsin
Yes, put the birth control information & devices & possibly meds out there, certainly @ the high school level, maybe sooner - if there's a need there. That's the pragmatic option, & maybe we can get a handle on sexually transmitted diseases @ the same time, as part of the same effort. The hardcore anti-abortion factions, however, claim that the dissemination of this information (let alone the devices &/or meds) will irreparably harm the poor innocent babes who have no idea of sexuality, nor curiosity; that it would harm their immortal souls & lead to a life of depravity & a fate worse than death, & so on & so forth.

Apparently the lives of aborted unwanted fetuses are a kind of sacrifice to a dark & hungry God. An updated kind of Aztec sacrifice - presumably to sustain the boundless love & grace of the Almighty. & so the misery & stunting of education & career opportunities is the price our children, especially the women, are to pay so that the rest of us can feel respectable.

Are you not entertained?
I'm guessing you and I would tend to agree on most subjects on the abortion topic. But this is the exact kind of post I want to avoid on this thread.

I don't care what you think the other side thinks. I care about what you think. There's nothing more unproductive than when republicans say "liberals always want to blah blah blah" or liberals go "all republicans want to do is nah nah nah."

If I want to know what pro-life people think, I'll look for responses from someone who is pro-life.
 

RNG

Apr 2013
38,656
26,645
La La Land North
Re: the OP.

But Bristol Palin might lose her job as spokesperson for the Abstinence Only organization. Do you want that burden on your shoulders?

Which is a snotty way of leading up to the fact that as wonderful as your ideas are, neither the fundie menace nor the catholic church will accept that.
 
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Mar 2013
10,141
10,949
Middle Tennessee
I can't find it now. But several years ago there was a study. It looked at all the different age, race, religion, income, parents situations and at what percentage of each group started having sex. They also split the groups into those that had received sex education (real medical based sex ed including birthcontrol) and those that had not. What they found was, there was a significant difference between the different socioeconomic groups in the percentage of kids that started having sex. The parents had the biggest influence on when they chose to have sex.

What was surprising was between those that had sex ed and those that did not, the percentages were exactly the same !!! The religious right has maintained that giving kids sex ed "encourages" them to have sex. This notion is completely false. It did NOT change the percentages in any of the groups studied.

What DID happen, is the group that received sex ed had up to 70% LESS unwanted pregnancies and instances of STDs.

If the anti-abortion crowd truly wanted to reduce the number of abortions, they'd institute mandatory sex ed and make all forms of birth control free.
 
Mar 2013
10,141
10,949
Middle Tennessee
The number of reported abortions peaked in the US at 1,429,247 in 1990.

In 2015, 638,169 abortions were reported.
One study attributed part of that decrease to the internet. Even if parents and schools are failing to teach kids about sex, they can find the information on the internet. As availability of internet services has spread, especially in low income neighborhoods and rural areas, the abortion rate has fallen.