Socialism has always had the same format.

Jun 2018
7,755
1,918
South Dakota
Bernie says he can do it in such a way as to avoid becoming a communist country. Damn liar. Crazy too, when you consider that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neil
Jul 2008
19,387
13,564
Virginia Beach, VA
Bernie says he can do it in such a way as to avoid becoming a communist country. Damn liar. Crazy too, when you consider that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Funny, we have socialism in this country and we haven’t turned into Venezuela
 

RNG

Forum Staff
Apr 2013
42,175
30,696
La La Land North
Don't you feel sorry for the stupid GOP. There they were gearing up for a campaign against Bernie and amassing all this socialism is scary bullshit and now it''s Uncle Joe so all that work was wasted. What a pity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: imaginethat
Feb 2007
6,437
4,184
USA
I find it rather telling how the author points to statements Sanders made in the very distant past, defines socialism as widespread nationalization of industry and whatnot, doesn't point to anything at all that Sanders states today regarding that nationalization, and then goes on to make mere assumptions about Sanders essentially having to implement those statements he had made in the very distant past by pointing out the histories of socialist countries.

Perhaps this article is best summarized as being "socialism paranoia."

:rolleyes:
 
Feb 2006
15,760
4,315
California
Bernie says he can do it in such a way as to avoid becoming a communist country. Damn liar. Crazy too, when you consider that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Are yer for or again socialist public roads and highways?

Are yer for or again socialist public schools?

Are yer for or again socialist public police and fire departments?

Are yer for or again our socialist military?

 
  • Like
Reactions: Kode
Feb 2018
3,171
2,386
Oregon
Bernie says he can do it in such a way as to avoid becoming a communist country. Damn liar. Crazy too, when you consider that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Total bullshit. Bernie is a "socialist" like FDR was a "socialist". I know you have no love for FDR since he stood for the people and against Big Business and you want to give everything to Big Business. Therefore you spread this kind of bullshit.
 
Feb 2018
3,171
2,386
Oregon
"Socialism" didn't destroy Venezuela. Oil did.
Actually while oil provided the means, it was the USA that destroyed Venezuela.

In 1922 a huge oil deposit was discovered. When drilled the oil shot 120 feet into the air. It took 9 days to contain it. Exxon and Conoco rushed in to get into the action. By 1928 Venezuela was the largest exporter of oil in the world. This is seen by the U.S. and other capitalist countries as a threat. So they attacked.

In 2015 the IMF said Venezuela’s growth rate was -8%, the inflation rate was 482%, and the unemployment rate was 17% and climbing.

Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, who had just returned from a trip to Venezuela, says those INF numbers are projections that turned out to be very wrong. Actual inflation was extremely high but the 482% projected was way off. It was actually 182%. The point being that the IMF numbers are not even close and so not reliable. That year (2015) the IMF projected the economy would shrink by 10% but it shrank by 5.7%. And the U.S. media further exaggerates the numbers because it’s “socialism”. They even were viciously critical of the economy when it was booming from 2003 to 2008.

Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, said the U.S. has been working to topple the Venezuelan government for many years and as an example in March of 2016 Obama announced sanctions againt Venezuela, saying that they presented “an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security of the U.S.” The corporate U.S. media didn’t bother to ask how that could be so Obama never had to explain that bit of contrived thinking. But it succeeded in persuading banks to refuse to extend further loans to Venezuela.

Weisbrot cites increased Trump sanctions that threaten to destroy Venezuela’s oil industry and the economy with it. Even the Venezuelan opposition is against the sanctions. So the threat to their economy is coming from the U.S., not Venezuela or “socialism”.


Role of US A.I.D. used to gain domination of nations since WWII:

Opposition in Venezuela has always been supported by US A.I.D. and The National Endowment for Democracy with milions and millions of taxpayer dollars.
Obama allocated $5.5 million to fund opposition.


American lawyer, Eva Golinger, spent 3 years studying our role in the development of the Venezuelan crisis. She used the FOIA to access government data. The documents she obtained showed that the U.S. government knew all about the 2002 coup that was to occur against Chavez two days before it happened. The documents showed that the CIA identified Chavez and 10 others to be arrested. A document said “to provoke military action, the plotters may try to exploit unrest stemming from opposition demonstrations slated for later this month”.

Two hours before protesters were shot by rooftop snipers, an army officer representing military forces that overthrew Chavez recorded a statement for release in which he said that Chavez had snipers kill 6 people. Chavez was captured and a corporate giant, Pedro Carmona was installed as President. Despite knowing what would happen beforehand and even making recommendations on whom to arrest including Chavez, Ari Fleischer said in a quick press conference “we know that the action encouraged by the Chavez government provoked this crisis. The results of these events are now that President Chavez has resigned the presidency.” The public announcement of this false information was part of the U.S. government’s role in the coup. Tens of thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets to demand Chavez’s safe return and soldiers still loyal to Chavez retook the palace and the coup crumbled within 48 hours.

Eva’s investigation uncovered a money trail from Washington to key organizations and individuals involved in the coup. She found that in the months before the coup, Washington had given millions of dollars to Chavezes opponents.

The U.S. claims they want “democracy” in Venezuela, but while Chavez was in jail, Carmona was busy dissolving the parliament and the courts leaving him free to rule by decree. Just 5 months before, Carmona had visited Washington as a guest of the State Department. A cable from the U.S. Embassy in Caracas referred to Carmona and his collegues as “influential business leaders who have consistently played a critical role in advancing U.S. commercial interests in Venezuela.” Another one said Carmona was “the right man at the right time” for Venezuela.

After Chavez was returned to power, the State Department sent instructions to the U.S. Embassy in Venezuela, saying “if asked ‘was the United States involved in the attempt to remove Chavez from power?” the answer was to be “absolutely not”.

Golinger’s research also uncovered documentation showing that Washington also backed disgruntled elements within the Venezuelan Armed Forces.

Also see For a democratic, revolutionary and socialist solution to the Venezuelan crisis | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal



 
  • Like
Reactions: right to left
Jan 2015
4,313
2,902
MD
Actually while oil provided the means, it was the USA that destroyed Venezuela.

In 1922 a huge oil deposit was discovered. When drilled the oil shot 120 feet into the air. It took 9 days to contain it. Exxon and Conoco rushed in to get into the action. By 1928 Venezuela was the largest exporter of oil in the world. This is seen by the U.S. and other capitalist countries as a threat. So they attacked.

In 2015 the IMF said Venezuela’s growth rate was -8%, the inflation rate was 482%, and the unemployment rate was 17% and climbing.

Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, who had just returned from a trip to Venezuela, says those INF numbers are projections that turned out to be very wrong. Actual inflation was extremely high but the 482% projected was way off. It was actually 182%. The point being that the IMF numbers are not even close and so not reliable. That year (2015) the IMF projected the economy would shrink by 10% but it shrank by 5.7%. And the U.S. media further exaggerates the numbers because it’s “socialism”. They even were viciously critical of the economy when it was booming from 2003 to 2008.

Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, said the U.S. has been working to topple the Venezuelan government for many years and as an example in March of 2016 Obama announced sanctions againt Venezuela, saying that they presented “an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security of the U.S.” The corporate U.S. media didn’t bother to ask how that could be so Obama never had to explain that bit of contrived thinking. But it succeeded in persuading banks to refuse to extend further loans to Venezuela.

Weisbrot cites increased Trump sanctions that threaten to destroy Venezuela’s oil industry and the economy with it. Even the Venezuelan opposition is against the sanctions. So the threat to their economy is coming from the U.S., not Venezuela or “socialism”.


Role of US A.I.D. used to gain domination of nations since WWII:

Opposition in Venezuela has always been supported by US A.I.D. and The National Endowment for Democracy with milions and millions of taxpayer dollars.
Obama allocated $5.5 million to fund opposition.


American lawyer, Eva Golinger, spent 3 years studying our role in the development of the Venezuelan crisis. She used the FOIA to access government data. The documents she obtained showed that the U.S. government knew all about the 2002 coup that was to occur against Chavez two days before it happened. The documents showed that the CIA identified Chavez and 10 others to be arrested. A document said “to provoke military action, the plotters may try to exploit unrest stemming from opposition demonstrations slated for later this month”.

Two hours before protesters were shot by rooftop snipers, an army officer representing military forces that overthrew Chavez recorded a statement for release in which he said that Chavez had snipers kill 6 people. Chavez was captured and a corporate giant, Pedro Carmona was installed as President. Despite knowing what would happen beforehand and even making recommendations on whom to arrest including Chavez, Ari Fleischer said in a quick press conference “we know that the action encouraged by the Chavez government provoked this crisis. The results of these events are now that President Chavez has resigned the presidency.” The public announcement of this false information was part of the U.S. government’s role in the coup. Tens of thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets to demand Chavez’s safe return and soldiers still loyal to Chavez retook the palace and the coup crumbled within 48 hours.

Eva’s investigation uncovered a money trail from Washington to key organizations and individuals involved in the coup. She found that in the months before the coup, Washington had given millions of dollars to Chavezes opponents.

The U.S. claims they want “democracy” in Venezuela, but while Chavez was in jail, Carmona was busy dissolving the parliament and the courts leaving him free to rule by decree. Just 5 months before, Carmona had visited Washington as a guest of the State Department. A cable from the U.S. Embassy in Caracas referred to Carmona and his collegues as “influential business leaders who have consistently played a critical role in advancing U.S. commercial interests in Venezuela.” Another one said Carmona was “the right man at the right time” for Venezuela.

After Chavez was returned to power, the State Department sent instructions to the U.S. Embassy in Venezuela, saying “if asked ‘was the United States involved in the attempt to remove Chavez from power?” the answer was to be “absolutely not”.

Golinger’s research also uncovered documentation showing that Washington also backed disgruntled elements within the Venezuelan Armed Forces.

Also see For a democratic, revolutionary and socialist solution to the Venezuelan crisis | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal



This is definitely true as well, but what I meant to say was that oil brought a lot of corruption and mismanagement to the country.

The effectiveness of Chavez's policies isn't really up for debate since poverty rates decreased, while literacy rates went up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: right to left