The effect of tariffs on the US

Nov 2012
38,522
11,332
Lebanon, TN
#11
TNVolunteer73, until we no longer levy income taxes upon individuals, I’m a proponent of retaining income taxes upon enterprises. Eliminating the taxes upon enterprises would require some increasing of individual rates and severely reduce government’s ability to monitor and enforce those taxes upon individuals.

Early in USA’S history, we levied tariffs to provide government tax revenue and promote our industries. After the enactment of federal income tax laws, our tariffs’ purposes evolved to more be for defending USA industries and their jobs, rather than federal tax revenue purposes.

Respectfully, Supposn
As RNG so profoundly noted, (not meaning too) CORPORATIONS DON'T PAY 1 PENNY in taxes, the tax cost is included in the price of the product or service... THE CONSUMER PAYS IT

I don't believe in Income taxes PERIOD it punishes PRDUCTIVITY, I support a Sales tax only. This way I control how much taxes I pay.
 
Nov 2012
38,522
11,332
Lebanon, TN
#12
RNG and TNVolunteer, I’m a proponent of an Import certificate rather than a tariff trade policy.
To the extent President Trump’s policy are more product and nation specific, they less achieve their purposes and are economically more detrimental. The 2020 elections will demonstrate to any extent USA voters opinions may be similar to mine.
Respectfully, Supposn
The problem with the Anti-trumpers is They don't understand when you enter negotiation you enter it asking for the world. You cannot increase the pressure, but when the other party negotiates, you can always decrease the pressure..
 
Apr 2013
34,216
23,110
Left coast
#16
RNG and TNVolunteer, I’m a proponent of an Import certificate rather than a tariff trade policy.
To the extent President Trump’s policy are more product and nation specific, they less achieve their purposes and are economically more detrimental. The 2020 elections will demonstrate to any extent USA voters opinions may be similar to mine.
Respectfully, Supposn
As we have discussed previously, you have still not convinced me that your import certificate program is anything different than a tariff, but with the added disadvantage of requiring more bureaucracy to handle the increased paperwork.
 
Oct 2009
455
74
Cliffside Park, NJ
#17
As we have discussed previously, you have still not convinced me that your import certificate program is anything different than a tariff, but with the added disadvantage of requiring more bureaucracy to handle the increased paperwork.
RNG, Import Certificate policy behaves as an indirect but effective price subsidy for imported goods. Tariff policy cannot do that.
Import Certificates themselves are transferable and would be available for trade or sale in almost any type of marketplace; (e.g. through direct principals or through their agents or brokers, over desks, or cafe tables, or security and stock exchanges, or the internet). All of that with no additional government intervention.


Regardless of Import Certificate prices in global markets, the policy will significantly reduce if not eliminate USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.
Import Certificate policy’s affects upon the costs to goods importers which indirectly but positively affect prices of imports our purchasers. The variable prices of certificates,( with absolutely no government intervention), adjust to USA's momentary trade balances and all other market conditions.


Increased effective demands for foreign imports, or reduced demand for USA exports will be reflected by increased global market prices of USA’s Import Certificates. Contrary conditions will reduce certificates’ market prices.
Certificate market prices are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. All of this is due to the markets with no government intervention. Should any entity foolishly attempt to manipulate the global certificate markets, it will be the markets rather than any government that will punish them.


Tariffs of sufficiently high rates may, (or may not) significantly reduce USA’s trade deficits of the specific goods they're applicable to, but they cannot assure significant reduction of USA’s total annual trade deficits.
Additionally, because finite tariffs are not sensitive to market conditions, it’s not assured that they will increase USA’s total GDP and numbers of jobs. Rather than improving our economy, a tariffs of drastic rates sufficient to significantly reduce our chronic annual trade deficits of goods, but without regard for fluid market conditions, may not unlikely be of net detriment rather than benefit to our nation’s GDP.


Respectfully, Supposn
 
Mar 2013
8,323
8,980
Middle Tennessee
#18
OH so you are saying CORPORATE TAXES are paid by the Consumer.. THEN WE NEED TO END ALL CORPORATE TAXES.

Welcome to in site to what I have been saying for decades.

what a tariff is, is a tax on offshore corporations.
It's a tax on foreign corporations ???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL THAT WE FUCKING PAY !!!! Tariffs make OUR PRICES GO UP. Ford has said the steel tariffs have cost them almost $1 BILLION DOLLARS. WHO do you think is paying for that ??? Either they have to absorb that cost OR RAISE THE PRICES OF THEIR CARS !!!! GM has said it's cost them about $700 million as well. Every other user of steel and aluminum is feeling the pinch.
 
Mar 2013
8,323
8,980
Middle Tennessee
#19
RNG, Import Certificate policy behaves as an indirect but effective price subsidy for imported goods. Tariff policy cannot do that.
Import Certificates themselves are transferable and would be available for trade or sale in almost any type of marketplace; (e.g. through direct principals or through their agents or brokers, over desks, or cafe tables, or security and stock exchanges, or the internet). All of that with no additional government intervention.


Regardless of Import Certificate prices in global markets, the policy will significantly reduce if not eliminate USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.
Import Certificate policy’s affects upon the costs to goods importers which indirectly but positively affect prices of imports our purchasers. The variable prices of certificates,( with absolutely no government intervention), adjust to USA's momentary trade balances and all other market conditions.


Increased effective demands for foreign imports, or reduced demand for USA exports will be reflected by increased global market prices of USA’s Import Certificates. Contrary conditions will reduce certificates’ market prices.
Certificate market prices are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. All of this is due to the markets with no government intervention. Should any entity foolishly attempt to manipulate the global certificate markets, it will be the markets rather than any government that will punish them.


Tariffs of sufficiently high rates may, (or may not) significantly reduce USA’s trade deficits of the specific goods they're applicable to, but they cannot assure significant reduction of USA’s total annual trade deficits.
Additionally, because finite tariffs are not sensitive to market conditions, it’s not assured that they will increase USA’s total GDP and numbers of jobs. Rather than improving our economy, a tariffs of drastic rates sufficient to significantly reduce our chronic annual trade deficits of goods, but without regard for fluid market conditions, may not unlikely be of net detriment rather than benefit to our nation’s GDP.


Respectfully, Supposn
It's STILL a tariff and it STILL makes those items MORE expensive to the end consumer. So whether I'm buying product A which costs $1.00 to make but has $1.00 added to it's price because of the price of the certificate or I buy product B a domestic product that costs $2.00 to produce because of higher labor costs, either way I am paying $2.00 for a product I was paying $1 for. If they are equal in all respects then if I am aware that one is domestic versus an import I may choose to support my local market. A tariff is a tariff and the end user pays for it. While that might help sales to local domestic consumers, provided there are no other variables concerning content and quality between the two products, it does NOT help them export to other countries.
 
Last edited:
Apr 2013
34,216
23,110
Left coast
#20
RNG, Import Certificate policy behaves as an indirect but effective price subsidy for imported goods. Tariff policy cannot do that.
Import Certificates themselves are transferable and would be available for trade or sale in almost any type of marketplace; (e.g. through direct principals or through their agents or brokers, over desks, or cafe tables, or security and stock exchanges, or the internet). All of that with no additional government intervention.


Regardless of Import Certificate prices in global markets, the policy will significantly reduce if not eliminate USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.
Import Certificate policy’s affects upon the costs to goods importers which indirectly but positively affect prices of imports our purchasers. The variable prices of certificates,( with absolutely no government intervention), adjust to USA's momentary trade balances and all other market conditions.


Increased effective demands for foreign imports, or reduced demand for USA exports will be reflected by increased global market prices of USA’s Import Certificates. Contrary conditions will reduce certificates’ market prices.
Certificate market prices are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. All of this is due to the markets with no government intervention. Should any entity foolishly attempt to manipulate the global certificate markets, it will be the markets rather than any government that will punish them.


Tariffs of sufficiently high rates may, (or may not) significantly reduce USA’s trade deficits of the specific goods they're applicable to, but they cannot assure significant reduction of USA’s total annual trade deficits.
Additionally, because finite tariffs are not sensitive to market conditions, it’s not assured that they will increase USA’s total GDP and numbers of jobs. Rather than improving our economy, a tariffs of drastic rates sufficient to significantly reduce our chronic annual trade deficits of goods, but without regard for fluid market conditions, may not unlikely be of net detriment rather than benefit to our nation’s GDP.


Respectfully, Supposn
But you say
Certificate market prices are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.
So the consumer pays. And if it is a market based then all that means is that Lehman Brothers Mk II will cheat and make a pisspot full of money off you but there will still need a bureaucracy to monitor, either a small impotent one and we get toxic asset part deux or a large, expensive clumsy one. No advantage and in fact disadvantages. And the consumer still pays.
 

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