The global warming partisan split

Dec 2015
21,207
22,171
Arizona
Ignorance is not bliss. Lack of knowledge (disinterest in science) usually isn't considered a GOOD thing, but for some really screwy reason, the GOP insists on it. AND we're back to the death of common sense and the definition of FACTS. AND doesn't this issue ultimately boil down to caution?
Everyone uses caution--all day every day and it has nothing to do with our political leanings. We wear seat belts, we put our babies in car seats, we abide by rules and laws, we budget our money as wisely as we can, we take an umbrella or jacket when we go out the door......we prepare for disasters like hurricanes....and some of us even arrange our funerals and hope for an afterlife.
So why is it that SO MANY (mostly Republicans) don't see Climate Change as something cautionary? Something to prepare for? Isn't danger involved? Isn't "possible" disaster involved? If not for our generation...what about our kids or grandkids?
 
Dec 2016
6,322
3,272
Canada
I think most of us have anecdotally thought this to be true but here are some numbers for us.

Everyone can have their own opinion but not their own facts?


For some reason Google is giving me a different set of Pew posts but this one has the same data, just presented differently.

U.S. concern about climate change is rising, but mainly among Democrats
So when does the break happen between Democrats and the Democrat Party? Because a week ago, the DNC voted to disallow a climate-only debate....declaring it to violate some principles of not having single issue debates....planet ending or not!

You know from the polling done up here on the subject of climate change, that there's a damn big difference between declaring a belief in climate change and being willing to do anything about it!

So, for anyone else, Canadians by and large believe scientific evidence regarding anthropogenic (manmade) climate change, BUT don't want to pay any extra on gas taxes or pay for any costs to retrofit the Canadian economy to consume and produce less carbon emissions into the atmosphere. And whether you believe something bad is coming, it doesn't matter a crap if you're not willing to do anything about it! Which would describe Federal Government policy of Justin Trudeau also.....wear green and declare concern/while signing all pipeline deals and expanding tarsands development! And this is why Canada doesn't live up to any green enviro image and is in fact one of the world's greatest per capita emitters of CO2 in the atmosphere.
 
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Aug 2018
721
441
been around
I DO believe in global warming, from my own observations in life. I don't listen to scientists who will come up with whatever pays their rent or fits their agenda.

I also believe taking everyone's money for corrupt government cronyism is not the answer; it will in fact ruin our chances to actually deal with the problem -and then we're really screwed.
 
Nov 2012
41,281
11,888
Lebanon, TN
History of the Current warming period

So if you say the current WEATHER is warm.. you are clueless of history. Holocene Maximum was warmer... (still it was part of the current wrming cycle.

so Clara and RNG. are you saying the LITTLE ICE AGE was the climate Optimum? (the Growing season for agriculture was 4O days SHORTER than the current weather)


Earth's Temperature in Past 18,000 years: <climate


Mini Ice Age lasts a few hundred years. Seafarers from Morocco and northern
Spain explore entire west coast of Europe. Caucasian race appears in Libya
Ice Age
mega fauna goes extinct. Societies become more centrally directed.
Specialized trades expand, longevity increases. Ireland to Scandinavia colonized.
Bering Strait land bridge drowned, halting migration of humans and animals
Language becomes more organized and developed (See
Linguistics)
Migrations out of North Africa to points east and north (as desert expands)
The
Holocene Maximum warm period
Peteroborough, Canada petroglyphs carved (See Bronze Age)
Isle of Thera volcano erupts, devastating Crete & other areas
Major attacks by
Sea Peoples on Egypt (attempt to reestablish Goddess religion)
Hebrews leave Egypt
Benedictine clerics expand Christian conversion activity in Europe
Horsecreek Petroglyph
carved in West Virginia ? (See Horsecreek)
Roman Catholic sponsored Invention of modern European languages expanded
Medieval Warm Period
Little Ice Age
Industrial Age



Why have the previous 4 warming periods (No man made possibility) as much as 2 degrees warmer than the current warming period.

CO2 vs Temperature: Last 400,000 years

1567240781996.png
1567240839716.png1567240781996.png
 
May 2018
5,309
4,591
USA
Ignorance is not bliss. Lack of knowledge (disinterest in science) usually isn't considered a GOOD thing, but for some really screwy reason, the GOP insists on it. AND we're back to the death of common sense and the definition of FACTS. AND doesn't this issue ultimately boil down to caution?
Everyone uses caution--all day every day and it has nothing to do with our political leanings. We wear seat belts, we put our babies in car seats, we abide by rules and laws, we budget our money as wisely as we can, we take an umbrella or jacket when we go out the door......we prepare for disasters like hurricanes....and some of us even arrange our funerals and hope for an afterlife.
So why is it that SO MANY (mostly Republicans) don't see Climate Change as something cautionary? Something to prepare for? Isn't danger involved? Isn't "possible" disaster involved? If not for our generation...what about our kids or grandkids?
Republicans are actively ANTI-knowledge. Republicans opposed school children taking "critical thinking" classes (no kidding! Can't have those kids questioning obviously false Bible stories, after all!). Most Republicans think college is BAD. Ignorance IS bliss, as far as the GOP is concerned. They adore ignorance, they worship it. Look who they put into office.
 
Dec 2016
6,322
3,272
Canada
I DO believe in global warming, from my own observations in life. I don't listen to scientists who will come up with whatever pays their rent or fits their agenda.

I was with you right up to that last part! Because what evidence is available or can be conjectured about climate scientists' motivations, the "agenda' was not pushed in advance of evidence by the universities, government agencies like NOAA, or government sponsored- climate research units they work for and collect good salaries, BUT not especially richly rewarded like the scientists who collect money directly or indirectly from weapons research and testing or the contrarian climate research unit set up by the notorious Huntsville campus of the University of Alabama.....the one that brought us Reagan's Star Wars experiments back in the 80's!

In fact, the exact opposite scenario could be conjectured judging from the writings, interviews and public statements from the most well known climate researchers - Michael Mann, James Hansen, Phil Jones, or Elizabeth "The Sixth Extinction" Kolbert, who all agree on evidence of a sharp increase in atmospheric CO2and other GHG gases in the atmosphere, and that it is human activity (industry, transportation, agriculture) which has thrown the earth's carbon cycle out of balance.....rates of carbon are going into the atmosphere too fast for natural negative feedback processes to remove that carbon and put it back in the ground....or add to igneous and sedimentary rock layers (rock weathering).

So, they got that part down, but where things get fuzzy and bogged down as these scientists have been calling for public or government actions and international efforts to reduce carbon emissions globally. AND since the first UN climate change summit back in 1990, atmospheric CO2 levels have gone in one direction - UP, and at accelerating annual rates of increase....which should be even more concerning. The annual rate of carbon increase is now almost three times what it was back in the late 50's - early 60s, when annual atmospheric gas measurements first started being taken at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii.

But the scientists are far from wild eyed radicals out to destroy civilization! Solutions offered by Hansen and Mann don't go much past advocating carbon taxes or carbon credit schemes. None of them challenge a global capitalist arrangement that enriches the wealthiest capitalists most, while impoverishing wage earners and stripping the natural world of resources at ever increasing rates of exploitation. I'd like to see some mainstream climate activist explain how to reduce carbon emissions under a global economic system that demands more energy for more production and more profits.....but that question never comes up among mainstream climate scientists who are funded by institutions which may accept their findings, but don't want anyone rocking the boat....like demanding changes to the economic system itself!

So, what it boils down to is we have a choice between bought and paid for( by oil companies mostly) fake and fraudulent research that has been trying to tell the public 'don't worry, everything's okay' or climatologists who have been slow to declare the severity of the crisis, and still force themselves to be 'hopeful' that everything will work out in the coming decades! Best evidence would indicate everything has exceeded worst case scenarios, and we are in an extinction level crisis where longterm survival looks like an extreme longshot!
I also believe taking everyone's money for corrupt government cronyism is not the answer; it will in fact ruin our chances to actually deal with the problem -and then we're really screwed.
Well, we're already screwed! We're seeing it all play out in the global south with increasing droughts causing an exodus to America and Europe....met by increasingly ruthless and murderous global north regimes who are tossing their enlightened democratic values etc. over the side and as the exodus grows, they will let more and more drown in the Mediterranean and die trying to cross into the US, where at best they face having themselves and their children thrown into hellish prison camps!
 
Aug 2018
721
441
been around
Well, we're already screwed!
This I'll agree with. The question is what do we do now. Technology got us into this; it will have to get us out.
There are several ways, one is placing sunshades in Earth's L1 point. Ambitious and costly, certainly, but within our abilities and doable within a relevant time span. It would work.
That or similar, I'd be glad to help pay for. Not the enrichment and enlargement of corrupt government to no avail.
 
May 2019
863
196
USA
I think the answer is in the spirit of globalism. To out source all of our blue collar jobs to China and other nations that do not have strong environmental laws or labor protections. Then, use strong regulations to make sure those jobs will not come back at all. Then, tell ourselves we are helping the world, while we have cheaper smart phones.
Brilliant!
 
Dec 2016
6,322
3,272
Canada
I think the answer is in the spirit of globalism. To out source all of our blue collar jobs to China and other nations that do not have strong environmental laws or labor protections. Then, use strong regulations to make sure those jobs will not come back at all. Then, tell ourselves we are helping the world, while we have cheaper smart phones.
Brilliant!
On a global scale, it's the logic behind locating hazardous waste dumps and similar toxic waste facilities in poor, inner city neighborhoods or out near Indian reserves where people are unaware that their water and soils are being poisoned.....until they're dying of cancer and it's too late! Why doesn't Manhattan or Palm Beach take toxic wastes?

Back 10 years ago, I was still hearing from liberal globalist techno worshipers who were pushing the notion that America's (at the time) declining carbon and aerosol emissions were evidence that technology and innovation had proven that economic growth doesn't have to come with increases in energy use and pollution. It was just a sleight of hand, since they were ignoring the rising emissions and energy consumption in the new "developing" economies, where they had outsourced their dirty industries starting in the 70's, and then the rest once they snuck through all of their "free trade" agreements that the non-corporate class never got a vote on!

Now, things are getting so bad that reality is crashing in and bullshit notions of high tech, freed trade providing us with a freer, cleaner, safer world are just plain laughable!
 
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