The Great Venezuelan Lie from the Democratic Socialists

Mar 2013
9,358
10,070
Middle Tennessee
#41
If Kuwait were sitting on top of large natural reserves of peat moss rather than oil it would in all likelihood today be Iraq's southern most province and Saddam Hussain Jr's favorite coastal get-away.

That is very similar to what I told a guy in the bank one day. He wanted to cut the line and when I refused he got all indignant and said "I am Kuwaiti" to which I said "I am American and if not for me you'd still be the 29th province of Iraq". He waited his turn !!!
 
Mar 2013
9,358
10,070
Middle Tennessee
#42
Can you please cite the specific acts of war and/or sanction legislation? I read mention of sanctions, in particular, from you folks often, but you're awfully vague about it.

My understanding is first we sanctioned their financing. Making it nearly impossible for them to borrow money needed to maintain and expand their oil operations. Then we, their single biggest customer, simply stopped buying their oil. This is what I've been saying. People here can't sit on their computers and talk about the evils of socialism and basically gloat over the Venezuela's economic collapse, while ignoring the very direct role we played in that collapse.
 
Mar 2013
9,358
10,070
Middle Tennessee
#46
So is it your contention that Venezuela's socialist experiment would be humming along fine but for the US sanctions that began in 2014?

No, that's not what I am saying at all. I am merely pointing out that WE the United States have through various actions hampered, probably severely hampered, their economy. People on this very board sit here and tell us about the "evils of socialism" and point to Venezuela as "proof positive" that it doesn't work. Yet how can we say it doesn't work when we've had a direct hand in crippling them ? It's like tripping a blind man, then blaming his blindness for his fall. How can we say it "doesn't work" when we have pulled tens of billions of dollars OUT of their economy. How many people on this very board could sustain their current lifestyle with a 30% to 50% cut in income ?

Would they have eventually collapsed under their own weight ?? Possibly. But then again, even reasonably well managed they may have also lifted a significant portion of their population out of poverty. My point is, like it or not, we played a direct role in their collapse, therefore it's just a wee bit hypocritical of us to celebrate that collapse, and more importantly claim it's because of their own actions.
 
Nov 2018
3,154
1,469
Inner Space
#47
It's not all or nothing, Biff. There are obligations in any ordered society. In a socialist system, however, you have far fewer individual freedoms, especially when it comes to property rights. And count me among those who think property rights and human rights are two sides of the same coin. If you don't respect what's mine, you don't respect me.
So, it really isn't about "compelled behavior" since behavior is compelled under capitalism. It is about protection of your perceived property rights.
 
Nov 2018
3,154
1,469
Inner Space
#48
No, that's not what I am saying at all. I am merely pointing out that WE the United States have through various actions hampered, probably severely hampered, their economy. People on this very board sit here and tell us about the "evils of socialism" and point to Venezuela as "proof positive" that it doesn't work. Yet how can we say it doesn't work when we've had a direct hand in crippling them ? It's like tripping a blind man, then blaming his blindness for his fall. How can we say it "doesn't work" when we have pulled tens of billions of dollars OUT of their economy. How many people on this very board could sustain their current lifestyle with a 30% to 50% cut in income ?

Would they have eventually collapsed under their own weight ?? Possibly. But then again, even reasonably well managed they may have also lifted a significant portion of their population out of poverty. My point is, like it or not, we played a direct role in their collapse, therefore it's just a wee bit hypocritical of us to celebrate that collapse, and more importantly claim it's because of their own actions.
The US chose to establish trade and political and social relations with other Communist countries (China, USSR, Russia, bloc countries) but have chosen to sanction, Cuba, Chile and Venezuela. No surprise those countries had problems.
 
Mar 2013
9,358
10,070
Middle Tennessee
#49
The US chose to establish trade and political and social relations with other Communist countries (China, USSR, Russia, bloc countries) but have chosen to sanction, Cuba, Chile and Venezuela. No surprise those countries had problems.

Hence the POINT of my posts. The utter hypocrisy of our foreign policy.
 

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