The REAL Bible

Sep 2017
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187
Georgia
For the most part I have not responded to ignorant people attacking the Bible and Christianity. I also realized that most people who consider themselves atheists, non-believers, or whatever makes them antithetical to religion don't have the facts.

So, you may have to wade through a lot of attempts to derail this thread to get the message, but I'm really going to give you some viewpoints - and will answer the basic objections that those virulently opposed to the Word of God make. And, unfortunately, that means challenging mainstream Churchianity.

This thread will focus on the TOP TEN THINGS YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THE BIBLE, BUT WERE WRONG ABOUT.

1) I notice that a lot of people out to rag on the Bible make much ado about the dates... i.e. when was Adam formed, etc. and they use that as a basis to, in their minds, disprove the Bible. But, the first thing they got wrong is a false presupposition about what the Bible is really concerning.

In the first chapter of Genesis, we read the account of how God created the heavens and earth; all kinds of plant and animal life; beasts of the earth / beasts of the field... even man. But, after he's done all of that, God figures out there is not a "man" to till the ground.

It's not until the second chapter of Genesis that God creates Adam and that "man" became a living soul. The very first presupposition that most people have with respect to the Bible is that Adam was the first man. It is absolutely false.

Even in Genesis the Bible says "This is the book of the generations (offspring) of Adam." It doesn't claim to be about anyone else except Adam and his offspring. Without doing a long thesis on this, let's apply a bit of common sense.

God created Adam and Eve. Then along came Cain and Able. The book of Genesis records all the offspring of Adam, so here is the problem:

Cain slew Able and is banished from the Garden of Eden. In the 4th chapter of Genesis, Cain is complaining to the Lord about his banishment and saying that men shall seek to slay him. But, he leaves and goes into the land of Nod where he takes a wife... Wait a minute.

What men were going to seek to kill Cain? According to modern interpretations, if Adam were the first "man" you have a problem here. And where was the land of Nod and how did Cain find someone to marry? There is only one conclusion - a conclusion that can be easily proven if you have the ability to open your eyes. Adam was not the first "man" according to the Bible.

One down and 9 to go.
 
Sep 2017
808
187
Georgia
2) The second presupposition that the people in mainstream believe in is the Eve ate an apple myth. What happened in the book of Genesis relative to Eve and the Serpent is an allegorical tale, but the real story is begging you to look at it for what it is.

Let's get down to the players. Satan has been described in the book of Revelations this way:

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelations 12 : 9

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years..." Revelations 20 : 2


The Bible refers to Satan as an accuser (Zechariah 3:1-2), a seducer (1 Chronicles 21:1), or a heavenly persecutor (Job 2:1.) Put another way, Satan is, most likely a fallen angel who rebelled against God.

In the Garden of Eden, the Serpent conned Eve into partaking of the fruit which was in midst of the garden. By doing so, the Serpent said that "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." So, did Eve eat an apple? OR did something a little more carnal take place?

Let me put it to you this way:

When God asked Eve about what she'd done, he gave her a punishment. In Genesis 3: 16 God told Eve:

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children."

In order to understand how the Serpent deceived Eve, you have to look at the punishment that was meted out. Sorrow in conception - and consider this:

If you have children and they don't bring the family car in on time, what do you think is appropriate punishment? You take the keys to the car and ground them OR you deliberately give them a disease that they will have for the rest of their lives?

The reality is, the Serpent beguiled Eve and tricked her. Consequently, Eve bore Cain and Cain was the offspring of the Serpent. As proof of that, check out the 5th chapter of Genesis. Cain is not listed as a son of Adam. Neither is Abel; however, Abel was murdered and left no trace of his lineage, never having bore any children. By contrast, Cain DID live and have offspring that are recorded throughout the Bible.

There is a 416 page book on this incident, using virtually every book of the Bible to illustrate what really happened. The shorter, abridged version is available on pdf:

https://archive.org/stream/2seedsgenesis315/The Two Seeds of Genesis 3-15 by Charles Lee Mange#page/n0/mode/2up
 
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RNG

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If you're trying to show that the OT is mostly bullshit, anyone who is willing to read that is already convinced and those that might benefit won't read it.
 
Sep 2017
228
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In a House
The OP is based on the Christian Identity / White Nationalist POV. SMFH

Here's a refutation of the OP's claims.

http://www.british-israel.ca/Seed.htm
The "Seed of Satan"

Does the Devil Have Offspring

on This Earth?

A growing movement in this country is spewing out virulent hatred against certain ethnic and racial groups-particularly the Jews claiming that they are the lineal descendants of the serpentine creature who appeared to Eve in the Garden of Eden. Perhaps you have heard of this "seedline" teaching. If so, it is past time you saw the TRUTH about this hate-mongering doctrine!

by Vance A. Stinson
 
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Sep 2017
808
187
Georgia
The OP is based on the Christian Identity / White Nationalist POV. SMFH

Here's a refutation of the OP's claims.

http://www.british-israel.ca/Seed.htm

Oh little boy. You are wrong as usual. But, I see that you don't think I can speak for myself. I need your dumb ass to speak for me. You're about as dumb as a box of rocks, aren't you?

Go away and troll someone else. LIAR. You are a lying scumbag POS LIAR. I'm not now nor have I ever been a white nationalist. Straight up LIAR. I don't need you speaking for me.
 
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Sep 2017
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In a House
Oh little boy. You are wrong as usual. But, I see that you don't think I can speak for myself. I need your dumb ass to speak for me. You're about as dumb as a box of rocks, aren't you?

Go away and troll someone else. LIAR. You are a lying scumbag POS LIAR. I'm not now nor have I ever been a white nationalist. Straight up LIAR. I don't need you speaking for me.
Are you claiming that Charles Lee Mange isn't a "2 Seed" preacher, and that the Christian Identity / White Nationalists cult doesn't follow his words? You are espousing his views and claiming them to be that of the REAL Bible. SMFH

So when you get refuted with your claims and they are shown to be extremist views you begin your childish whining and school yard insults. gofigur :wacko:
 
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Sep 2017
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Are you claiming that Charles Lee Mange isn't a "2 Seed" preacher, and that the Christian Identity / White Nationalists cult doesn't follow his words? You are espousing his views and claiming them to be that of the REAL Bible. SMFH

So when you get refuted with your claims and they are shown to be extremist views you begin your childish whining and school yard insults. gofigur :wacko:
I don't have to claim a damn thing and let's get this straight. I don't answer to you and it will be a cold day in HELL before I allow you to cross examine me. You are a pathological liar and an utter dumb ass.

Charles Mange does not have any white nationalists in his church. You, more than anybody, know that. You keep playing your game, but TreeDoc, the last time you screwed with me and I gave you the time of day, YOU TAPPED OUT!

Christian Identity does not have a monopoly on the belief that Eve was seduced by Satan under the name of the serpent. According to Wikipedia:

"In the period immediately preceding the composition of the New Testament, some sects of Judaism identified the "sons of God" (בני האלהים‎) of Genesis 6:1–4 as fallen angels.[4] Some scholars consider it most likely that this Jewish tradition of fallen angels predates, even in written form, the composition of Gen 6:1–4.[5][6] Lester L. Grabbe calls the story of the sexual intercourse between angels and women "an old myth in Judaism".[7] Until the mid-2nd century AD, Jewish writing (such as midrashim) can be taken to identify the "sons of God" of Gen 6:1 and 4 as angels.[8]

By the 3rd century, there is evidence that some early Christians accepted this Jewish Enochic pseudepigraphy and the application of the angelic descent myth to the "sons of God" passage in Genesis 6:1–4.[9] Its presence not only in the East but also in the Latin-speaking West is attested by the polemic of Augustine of Hippo (354–430) against the motif of giants born of the union between fallen angels and human women.[10] Rabbinic Judaism and Christian authorities rejected the tradition.[11] Those who adopted the tradition viewed the "sons of God" as fallen angels who married human women and begot the Nephilim through unnatural unions
"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel

To make this simple and understandable:

The earliest Christians adopted that view. The Jews then tried to use it. Then the Christians wanted to drop it and change their viewpoint and the Jews followed suit. Now, modern churches try to call it a myth, but it was the earliest interpretation and I feel the most accurate.

And if anyone wants to talk directly to Charles Lee Mange, PM me. You will learn, straight from the source, Tree Doc is a rotten stinking LIAR.
 
Sep 2017
808
187
Georgia
3) The third false presupposition that the atheists, non-believers, etc. bring to the table is that the Bible is all about some Jewish fables. What??? The Jews have little to do with the Bible.

We try to make events in our history align with history and current events, but it simply doesn't work. If you read the Bible for what it is and then figure out WHO is doing the things God said his elect would do, the entire Bible - both in its history and prophecies comes alive.

In John 10: 27 the Bible says:

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

So, what people listened throughout history? WHO followed Christ? Most of you reading this benefited off it.
 
Sep 2017
228
37
In a House
I don't have to claim a damn thing and let's get this straight. I don't answer to you and it will be a cold day in HELL before I allow you to cross examine me. You are a pathological liar and an utter dumb ass.

Charles Mange does not have any white nationalists in his church. You, more than anybody, know that. You keep playing your game, but TreeDoc, the last time you screwed with me and I gave you the time of day, YOU TAPPED OUT!

Christian Identity does not have a monopoly on the belief that Eve was seduced by Satan under the name of the serpent. According to Wikipedia:

"In the period immediately preceding the composition of the New Testament, some sects of Judaism identified the "sons of God" (בני האלהים‎) of Genesis 6:1–4 as fallen angels.[4] Some scholars consider it most likely that this Jewish tradition of fallen angels predates, even in written form, the composition of Gen 6:1–4.[5][6] Lester L. Grabbe calls the story of the sexual intercourse between angels and women "an old myth in Judaism".[7] Until the mid-2nd century AD, Jewish writing (such as midrashim) can be taken to identify the "sons of God" of Gen 6:1 and 4 as angels.[8]

By the 3rd century, there is evidence that some early Christians accepted this Jewish Enochic pseudepigraphy and the application of the angelic descent myth to the "sons of God" passage in Genesis 6:1–4.[9] Its presence not only in the East but also in the Latin-speaking West is attested by the polemic of Augustine of Hippo (354–430) against the motif of giants born of the union between fallen angels and human women.[10] Rabbinic Judaism and Christian authorities rejected the tradition.[11] Those who adopted the tradition viewed the "sons of God" as fallen angels who married human women and begot the Nephilim through unnatural unions
"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel

To make this simple and understandable:

The earliest Christians adopted that view. The Jews then tried to use it. Then the Christians wanted to drop it and change their viewpoint and the Jews followed suit. Now, modern churches try to call it a myth, but it was the earliest interpretation and I feel the most accurate.

And if anyone wants to talk directly to Charles Lee Mange, PM me. You will learn, straight from the source, Tree Doc is a rotten stinking LIAR.
Your wiki quote doesn't back up your Christian Identity extremism interpretation. It only goes to show you make things up as you go and try to make them fit your agenda when they don't. :SHRUG::wacko:

Charles Lee Mange's real name is Dan Gayman. http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/dan-gayman-jews-serpent-seed-satan
Dan Gayman was a high school principal who now heads the Church of Israel. He had previously founded the Church of Our Christian Heritage which was affiliated with the National Emancipation of Our White Seed group that is headed by Buddy Tucker. Gayman and Tucker teamed up to produce “The Battle Axe News” which is an anti-Jewish publication. Gayman also publishes “The Vision” and “The Watchman,” he also established “a new outreach ministry” called Hunter Ministry that is meant to recruit “the lost sheep of the House of Israel,” he also authored various books such as “The Holy Book, the Book of Adam's Race,” “Racial Purity in the Living Church,” “Sodomy, the Curse of a Wicked Generation” and “Tracing Our Ancestors.”

In 1977 AD he wrote a book titled “The Two Seeds of Genesis 3:15” he wrote that Jews “think differently, look differently, and act differently than [Adam’s seed] because they are from a different father…none other than Satan….They are eternally flawed, being the physical offspring of Satan in his fallen state.”

In 1994 AD Dan Gayman stated, “Satan is the father of the serpent seed in Genesis 3:15…The hatred of Genesis3:15 is locked into the very genes of they cannot be changed….This offspring of Satan does what they do because their very nature, being evil, can only produce evil.”

Gayman also warns that “Failure to rightly divide Scripture and look into the Two Seeds of Genesis3:15 has had profound consequences upon the religious development of this generation” as “Satan will employ all the powers of spiritual darkness to keep this truth [of the serpent seed of Satan theory] from being told” and “Those who deny the literal and physical offspring of Satan will pay a high price for such evasion of truth.”

Stated quite plainly, “The Serpent Seed is the public enemy.”
Now who is Buddy Tucker, but a White Nationalist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewey_H_"Buddy"_Tucker
Dewey H "Buddy" Tucker is an American minister from Dandridge, Tennessee, as well as the founder and former pastor of the "Temple Memorial Baptist Church" in Knoxville, Tennessee. He is a white nationalist, an anti-Semite, a former Baptist and the founder of the now defunct group "National Emancipation of our White Seed".

His activities have associated him with Christian Identity leaders and white supremacists such as Dan Gayman, Gerald L. K. Smith, Byron De La Beckwith, Richard Butler and Bertrand Comparet, along with groups that include the National States' Rights Party, and the Aryan Nations.[1][2][3]
Just accept the facts for what they are and quite trying to hide behind your faux outrage and childish BS. Own what you are and quit denying it.
 
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I don't want to get into mudslinging and belief bashing. That is not what the Bible is for. Believing one is right doesn't justify name-calling and generally bad manners. Here is a counter-thought for presupposition #1.

People tend to view Adam and Eve in a 21st-century context, supposing that Adam and Ever likely hooked up in their early 20s and that by the time Cain and Abel were squabbling teenagers the parents were in their mid-to-late 30s. So, the atheist rightfully asks where did Cain get his wife. BUT GENESIS tells us that Adam lived 930 years. That is a long to procreate, and nowhere does the writer tell us how old Cain and Abel were when they had their falling out, or how old their parents were by that time. So it is humanly possible that Adam and Eve had dozens of kids by that then, perhaps they had even become a multi-generational clan. The truth is that we just don't know. NOR do we have the slightest clue as to their race, location by then, or language group.

Here is a question for you, please be truthful: Is it possible that Adam and Eve were Black?