Trump "pleasures" Kim in North Korea

Dec 2016
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#51
The endless practice invasions NATO troops carry out on Russia's borders....

Please educate yourself. The exercises are defensive, in response to a Russian attack, an attack that the Russians probably would win.
Seems like you need the education here! You got the same problem as the generals and the spooks in Washington, who call all US military aggressions "defensive." When NATO exercises are carried out from Norway thru the Baltic States, East Germany and down to the Black Sea naval operations, it's a sick joke to pretend like the most recent MSM propaganda did with their headlines that a massive NATO exercise involving 31 nations (3 more than actual NATO members) from the Norway-Russian border on south was "defensive" to "prevent" a Russian invasion! We were told the exact same crap about the Soviet "threat" all through the Cold War era by McNamara and other Neocons who always ginned up the notion that the Soviet tanks were going to come rolling through Germany at any second. Anyone who was stationed at one of the bases in the former West Germany knew full well that the massive Soviet tank drive would be met with an aerial assault from NATO...which might include mini-nukes the Carter Admin were calling "neutron bombs" back then. It didn't make anyone stationed in Germany or the locals for that matter feel any better that we would be immediately wiped out if or when the Soviet invasion ever happened. It's likely for this reason that the peace movements demanding a 'detente' and an end to hostile threats began in Germany, and made US war planners keep negotiating treaties....which I think Obama and Trump have entirely scrapped by now..... but back then, a lot of Germans...who were seeing their lives become better and more prosperous, were getting sick and tired of having the nuclear 'sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads!

And when the Soviet Union began to breakup, even when the Soviets were being bankrupted by a sharp drop in oil prices and production and costs of maintaining its military, the reformer - Gorbachev still resisted letting the Baltic States leave the Soviet Union, after letting East Germany go and be absorbed by the capitalist West. To facilitate a smooth transfer of power in the East Bloc states, George HW Bush made a promise to Gorbachev that NATO would not be expanded east or set up bases in former Soviet states. And as history tells us, that promise was broken as soon as Bill Clinton became president and was told it would make him look stronger and very popular in Europe if he scrapped that unneeded deal with Moscow and went ahead with NATO expansion.

And, here we are today, with NATO conducting military exercises all along Russia's borders....exercises that include offensive weapons like tanks and amphibious assault landing crafts! And yet the programming they give their media...like the New York Times is to call them 'defensive' operations to protect Europe from a Russian invasion! For obvious reasons, with all this shit going on along its borders, the Russians have to add to their sets of bases and conduct military exercises ON THEIR OWN TERRITORY! to protect against a conventional land, air and sea invasion from the west....again!

This is the perspective you have if you just step back and look at how the picture appears to someone on the other side of an imaginary line. This is no different than what the Iranians are going through right now, as we hear endlessly about Iranian aggression from a host of nations like Israel and the US who spent the last several decades bombing and invading a number of nations! There are a string of US bases all along Iran's borders from the west, the gulf, and along the east, and yet we're told that Iran is the problem!

*fwiw one of the reasons why I never use the terms 'defense' 'Defense Dept.' etc. is because for the entire length of America's history it was more honestly titled the WAR Dept.! For the simple reason that wars used to be launched with a declaration of war by the president- authorized by congress. But, once the propaganda term "defense" was inserted, all of a sudden, America isn't declaring war on anyone! Just taking proactive defensive measures as it prevents 'dominoes' from falling in Korea, Latin America, Greece, Italy, Vietnam etc., launches fully clandestine CIA dirty wars in the 70's fueled with the profits from narco-trafficking operations in Columbia and Central America, and ever since the Rwandan Genocide was seized upon dishonestly as an example of what happens when America doesn't send its military forces in....all of a sudden we have a "Responsibility To Protect;" a label that justifies destroying any non-compliant governments through sanctions (economic blockade), bombing and having evil proxies like the Sauds and Gulf allies send in their worst murderers....making sure that their your propaganda ministry has set in place a series of NGO's to create and distribute propaganda on behalf of the "liberators." If things go bad....as they have with each and every regime change op so far, you already have new regime change targets that your NGO's have created propaganda to justify using that R2P doctrine again! And nobody it seems...not MSM and worse: not even the so called independent media ever seems to go back and investigate what happened to regime changes of the past or even bother to connect the obvious dots from regime change disasters to anarchy and mass refugee migrations that Europeans and Americans complain about after causing them to happen!
 
Dec 2016
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#52
I was looking into the "definitive progress" a little more and discovered that the renewed negotiations will feature Pompeo as the lead US negotiator. And then I remembered this from last April.

North Korea: If US wants to talk, put someone 'more mature' than Pompeo in charge
...Pompeo was one of the primary drivers in Washington of those talks, and the historic first summit between Trump and Kim in Singapore. That meeting came about after Pompeo traveled to Pyongyang, where he was photographed smiling and shaking hands with Kim.​
The shine appears to have come off the relationship now, however. Kwon complained that Pompeo had characterized Kim's speech as being about finishing "working level negotiation between (North Korea) and the US by the end of the year," an interpretation he said was "talking nonsense."​
"We cannot be aware of Pompeo's ulterior motive behind his self-indulgence in reckless remarks; whether he is indeed unable to understand words properly or just pretending on purpose. However, it is a very dangerous situation if he really did not grasp the meaning," Kwon said.​

North Korea rejects Mike Pompeo as emissary - CNNPolitics

And then there's......

North Korea executes envoy to failed U.S. summit -media; White House monitoring
North Korea executed its nuclear envoy to the United States as part of a purge of officials who steered negotiations for a failed summit between leader Kim Jong Un and U.S. President Donald Trump, a South Korean newspaper said on Friday.​
Kim Hyok Chol was executed in March at Mirim Airport in Pyongyang, along with four foreign ministry officials after they were charged with spying for the United States, the Chosun Ilbo reported, citing an unidentified source with knowledge of the situation.​
“He was accused of spying for the United States for poorly reporting on the negotiations without properly grasping U.S. intentions,” the source was quoted as saying.​
The February summit in Vietnam’s capital Hanoi, the second between Kim and Trump, failed to reach a deal because of conflicts over U.S. calls for complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and North Korean demands for sanctions relief.​

North Korea executes envoy to failed U.S. summit -media; White House monitoring - Reuters

Complete denuclearization....cough, cough........ It's just like Sabcat said, Trump is making unprecedented progress w/ north Korea, but you and I got late stage TDS so we can't see all the unprecedented progress. Sigh.......
You need to both: keep up with the latest news AND be a lot less gullible! Because less than two weeks later, even WaPo has to print a retraction on this story:

Purged? Not purged. Leading North Korean official reemerges in public.
By Min Joo Kim and
Simon Denyer
June 3

SEOUL — A senior official who was reported last week as being the victim of a purge in North Korea has reappeared in public sitting not far from the country’s leader, Kim Jong Un.

And by the way, the story about the general or whatever executed by antiaircraft gun was also a complete fabrication made up by an NK defector...as was the stories of an NK pop singer and her band being executed....also revealed to be a fraud when she started showing up in public again!

On a independent media show I was listening to, a guest who actually has real insight and expertise on North Korea says there is a huge problem with taking at face value every single report that shows up in rightwing media like a major newspaper in Seoul. And the fact that NK defectors can be offered as much as $1,000,000 USD if they have 'intelligence' information that authorities consider to be of value to them. The defectors may have some horror stories of living in the north, but they also have a huge financial incentive to just make up shit that the Government wants to hear and rightwing-military affiliated media want to promote.


 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
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#53
Seems like you need the education here! You got the same problem as the generals and the spooks in Washington, who call all US military aggressions "defensive." When NATO exercises are carried out from Norway thru the Baltic States, East Germany and down to the Black Sea naval operations, it's a sick joke to pretend like the most recent MSM propaganda did with their headlines that a massive NATO exercise involving 31 nations (3 more than actual NATO members) from the Norway-Russian border on south was "defensive" to "prevent" a Russian invasion! We were told the exact same crap about the Soviet "threat" all through the Cold War era by McNamara and other Neocons who always ginned up the notion that the Soviet tanks were going to come rolling through Germany at any second. Anyone who was stationed at one of the bases in the former West Germany knew full well that the massive Soviet tank drive would be met with an aerial assault from NATO...which might include mini-nukes the Carter Admin were calling "neutron bombs" back then. It didn't make anyone stationed in Germany or the locals for that matter feel any better that we would be immediately wiped out if or when the Soviet invasion ever happened. It's likely for this reason that the peace movements demanding a 'detente' and an end to hostile threats began in Germany, and made US war planners keep negotiating treaties....which I think Obama and Trump have entirely scrapped by now..... but back then, a lot of Germans...who were seeing their lives become better and more prosperous, were getting sick and tired of having the nuclear 'sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads!

And when the Soviet Union began to breakup, even when the Soviets were being bankrupted by a sharp drop in oil prices and production and costs of maintaining its military, the reformer - Gorbachev still resisted letting the Baltic States leave the Soviet Union, after letting East Germany go and be absorbed by the capitalist West. To facilitate a smooth transfer of power in the East Bloc states, George HW Bush made a promise to Gorbachev that NATO would not be expanded east or set up bases in former Soviet states. And as history tells us, that promise was broken as soon as Bill Clinton became president and was told it would make him look stronger and very popular in Europe if he scrapped that unneeded deal with Moscow and went ahead with NATO expansion.

And, here we are today, with NATO conducting military exercises all along Russia's borders....exercises that include offensive weapons like tanks and amphibious assault landing crafts! And yet the programming they give their media...like the New York Times is to call them 'defensive' operations to protect Europe from a Russian invasion! For obvious reasons, with all this shit going on along its borders, the Russians have to add to their sets of bases and conduct military exercises ON THEIR OWN TERRITORY! to protect against a conventional land, air and sea invasion from the west....again!

This is the perspective you have if you just step back and look at how the picture appears to someone on the other side of an imaginary line. This is no different than what the Iranians are going through right now, as we hear endlessly about Iranian aggression from a host of nations like Israel and the US who spent the last several decades bombing and invading a number of nations! There are a string of US bases all along Iran's borders from the west, the gulf, and along the east, and yet we're told that Iran is the problem!

*fwiw one of the reasons why I never use the terms 'defense' 'Defense Dept.' etc. is because for the entire length of America's history it was more honestly titled the WAR Dept.! For the simple reason that wars used to be launched with a declaration of war by the president- authorized by congress. But, once the propaganda term "defense" was inserted, all of a sudden, America isn't declaring war on anyone! Just taking proactive defensive measures as it prevents 'dominoes' from falling in Korea, Latin America, Greece, Italy, Vietnam etc., launches fully clandestine CIA dirty wars in the 70's fueled with the profits from narco-trafficking operations in Columbia and Central America, and ever since the Rwandan Genocide was seized upon dishonestly as an example of what happens when America doesn't send its military forces in....all of a sudden we have a "Responsibility To Protect;" a label that justifies destroying any non-compliant governments through sanctions (economic blockade), bombing and having evil proxies like the Sauds and Gulf allies send in their worst murderers....making sure that their your propaganda ministry has set in place a series of NGO's to create and distribute propaganda on behalf of the "liberators." If things go bad....as they have with each and every regime change op so far, you already have new regime change targets that your NGO's have created propaganda to justify using that R2P doctrine again! And nobody it seems...not MSM and worse: not even the so called independent media ever seems to go back and investigate what happened to regime changes of the past or even bother to connect the obvious dots from regime change disasters to anarchy and mass refugee migrations that Europeans and Americans complain about after causing them to happen!
All that's interesting, but none of it is going to happen. And yes, the US is an evil empire.
 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
68,117
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Colorado
#54
You need to both: keep up with the latest news AND be a lot less gullible! Because less than two weeks later, even WaPo has to print a retraction on this story:

Purged? Not purged. Leading North Korean official reemerges in public.
By Min Joo Kim and
Simon Denyer
June 3

SEOUL — A senior official who was reported last week as being the victim of a purge in North Korea has reappeared in public sitting not far from the country’s leader, Kim Jong Un.

And by the way, the story about the general or whatever executed by antiaircraft gun was also a complete fabrication made up by an NK defector...as was the stories of an NK pop singer and her band being executed....also revealed to be a fraud when she started showing up in public again!

On a independent media show I was listening to, a guest who actually has real insight and expertise on North Korea says there is a huge problem with taking at face value every single report that shows up in rightwing media like a major newspaper in Seoul. And the fact that NK defectors can be offered as much as $1,000,000 USD if they have 'intelligence' information that authorities consider to be of value to them. The defectors may have some horror stories of living in the north, but they also have a huge financial incentive to just make up shit that the Government wants to hear and rightwing-military affiliated media want to promote.
Oh well then. Kim is a great guy, leader of a fabulously just and free nation, a model for all third world countries.

My mistake.

I guess he had nothing to do with his half-brother's death either. I'm so gullible!
 
Dec 2016
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#55
All that's interesting, but none of it is going to happen. And yes, the US is an evil empire.
Well, if you're trying to imply that I'm being an 'alarmist' and overstating the case, I noticed this this morning in Ajamu Baraka's editorial posted on Black Agenda Report today, that mostly dealt with a call to end AFRICOM: U.S. Militarism and the One-Sided Class War

As unstable as Trump is alleged to be, Democrats rejected calls from many quarters to oppose the administration’s inclusion in the NDAA to develop “usable” nuclear weapons as part of the drive to incorporate their tactical use. So-called usable nuclear weapons -- lower-yield devices that can theoretically be used like conventional bombs -- are now being advanced as a necessary part of the mainline “defense” strategy. Among the many problems with this position, the biggest is that this strategy has nothing to do with defense and everything to do with enhancing the capacity for a “nuclear first strike.” Interestingly, not only was opposition from Democrats MIA, but the lopsided vote indicates that they have fully embraced this insane policy that was first proposed under Barack Obama.
Okay, if you're not up to speed on this....and who is besides those of us who follow Russian, Chinese, Iranian and an assortment of dissident antiwar media here, the US started going back to its Cold War strategy of developing lower yield nuclear warheads that supposedly emit less heavy radioactive elements.....therefore supposedly would not permanently irradiate a battlefield. Think of the "Neutron Bomb" proposed in the 70's. All through the Cold War, the US and Soviet Union mostly operated two different strategic nuclear strategies; and this is why many of us long believed it was the US/not Russia who was the primary aggressor during the Cold War: the Soviets decided early on...by the mid-50's that their resources for nuclear warfare should mostly focus on having a doomsday strategy.....that being weapons that were so devastating that they could only be used in the case of a terminal War To End All Wars. So, they went with building bigger and bigger hydrogen bombs/while the US secretly began a program of trying to build nukes that were smaller and would do less blast damage as well as much lower levels of strontium and other heavy nuclear isotopes which remain in the ground indefinitely. So, in theory, they could set off a neutron bomb...destroying Soviet tank divisions or military installations and march troops through to consolidate empty territory a few days later. Now, who sounds like the aggressor, and who is focused on defending their territory under these scenarios?

And once again, just like every other fucking thing, every bad idea Trump has, was set in place by Obama and even worse, is still backed up by the Democrat majority in Congress:

This article is more than 1 year old
US to loosen nuclear weapons constraints and develop more 'usable' warheads


This Guardian article which declares: New proposal is significantly more hawkish than Obama-era policy doesn't get past the fact that Trump's nuclear posture review is not much different than what Obama & co. had already put in place. It's a bipartisan effort that carries on with little more than a few tweaks and minor adjustments through Democrat and Republican administrations!
Start with Obama's $Trillion 10 year plan to 'upgrade' America's nuclear forces...which in reality we were told would cost much more than the trillion that Obama was afraid to say out loud (much like the $Trillion+ TARP bailout of friends on Wall Street after they blew up international credit markets in 08. But it was under Obama when the nuke miniaturization program took off, and regardless of all the horseshit rhetoric that gets unloaded every day on CNN and MSNBC about how dangerous and unstable Donald Trump is, this same crew once again wants to give him more money and more reasons to go to war! Even taking usable nukes to war......which it needs to be noted that the Russians on the other side of the fence make no distinction between sizes and scales of nuclear weapons. Even today, nukes are nukes, and Putin already declared a year ago, when talk of the US formally withdrawing from the INF Treaty was being talked about, that they would be regarded as the same as an ICBM or sub-launched nuclear missile.

So, why should anyone sitting on the sidelines of this Dems vs Repubs game believe there is much difference to be made between them? When the money gets set in place, and the only time Trump doesn't get condemned by the Democrats or MIL- funded media is when he's dropping bombs somewhere or threatening an invasion. As Fareed Zecariah said after Trump authorized a missile attack at Syrian bases after what turned out to be a poison gas attack carried out by so called "free" Syria allies, "for the first time, Donald Trump looks presidential!" If that's the resistance media, we're all doomed!
 
Dec 2016
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#56
Oh well then. Kim is a great guy, leader of a fabulously just and free nation, a model for all third world countries.

My mistake.

I guess he had nothing to do with his half-brother's death either. I'm so gullible!
I'm sure he kills lots of enemies, but so does the US of A! Point being if 9 out of 10 of these killings turn out to be false....when they show up in public again, how credible are the sources?

And, all this has nothing to do with ending the Korean War. As Larry Wilkerson ( a disgruntled former DOD and Bush official) declared: "you negotiate with your enemies, not your friends!"
 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
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#58
I'm sure he kills lots of enemies, but so does the US of A! Point being if 9 out of 10 of these killings turn out to be false....when they show up in public again, how credible are the sources?

And, all this has nothing to do with ending the Korean War. As Larry Wilkerson ( a disgruntled former DOD and Bush official) declared: "you negotiate with your enemies, not your friends!"
Kim is not going to denuclearize. Period.
 
Dec 2016
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#59
Kim is not going to denuclearize. Period.
Does Kim have any good reasons to believe that the US will not try to kill him or destroy the North Korean regime at any point in the future? Trump crappola aside, the US doesn't have a good track record for keeping promises! Think of how Gadaffi's government in Libya was destabilized and destroyed...including the murder of Gadaffi himself by jihadists; all after making a deal to end Libya's WMD supplies and research.
 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
68,117
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Colorado
#60
Does Kim have any good reasons to believe that the US will not try to kill him or destroy the North Korean regime at any point in the future? Trump crappola aside, the US doesn't have a good track record for keeping promises! Think of how Gadaffi's government in Libya was destabilized and destroyed...including the murder of Gadaffi himself by jihadists; all after making a deal to end Libya's WMD supplies and research.
Yep. As long as Kim can threaten S. Korea and Japan, he's got leverage.
 

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