Trump to amend Constitution with executive order

Jun 2012
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Barsoom
Who has re-interpreted the Fourteenth Amendment? I am pretty sure that using the meaning as explained by the men who wrote it, the general public understanding, the debates of the 39th Congress, and how it was used until the 1960s is the correct intent of the Fourteenth Amendment.

If anyone can produce a single piece of historical evidence that any of the above is incorrect, post it. So far all that has been produced are liberal feeling of what they wished the amendment meant.
 
Jul 2014
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I am pretty certain that most educated people knew of this:

That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof....​

I am also pretty certain that most educated people know that when the man who wrote the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment said that the clause did not apply to aliens, he did not mean people from Mars. And that when the entire debate of the 39th Congress and the citizenship clause revolved around only freed slaves, they meant only freed slaves.
It's the statute, passed in 1952, that is the operative law, and the intent of the framers of the statute that holds sway in this instance.
And none of them raised any issue with birthright citizenship being applied the way it is to this very day.

Your misreading of statements made by people 150 years ago notwithstanding.
What they said during debate means far less that the adopted text, and surely it is the intent of the people who voted for that text tat has to be considered, and none of them raised an issue with birthright citizenship, that wasn't struck down by the court.
 
Likes: Clara007
Jun 2012
41,958
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Barsoom
Birthright citizenship did not happen by legislation until the 1960s. No legislation trumps the Constitution regardless of how much one whines about it.

If anyone can explain how this is being mis-read, that would be great:

The Fourteenth Amendment was the constitutionalization of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. Senator Howard introduced the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Congressional Globe, Senate, 1st Sess. 39th Cong. 2893:

Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.​
 
Jun 2012
41,958
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Barsoom
Note the hypocrisy of liberals in this thread. Regarding the text of the Fourteenth Amendment's citizenship clause, all that matters is the final text, not the intent. (Liberals also do not realize that the text does not support birthright citizen).

Using the liberal's methodology, the Fourteenth Amendment is dead because it does not mention incorporation, any of the first ten amendments, etc. It cannot be applied to the states because it does not say that it does.
 
Jul 2014
14,234
8,652
massachusetts
I am pretty certain that most educated people knew of this:

That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof....​

I am also pretty certain that most educated people know that when the man who wrote the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment said that the clause did not apply to aliens, he did not mean people from Mars. And that when the entire debate of the 39th Congress and the citizenship clause revolved around only freed slaves, they meant only freed slaves.
actually he said " aliens, who have diplomatic immunity", he was referring to diplomats.
He didn't say aliens AND those who have diplomatic immunity.
He used a comma, not a conjunction, the diplomatic immunity phrase modifies the meaning of alien.
 
Likes: Clara007
Jul 2014
14,234
8,652
massachusetts
Birthright citizenship did not happen by legislation until the 1960s. No legislation trumps the Constitution regardless of how much one whines about it.

If anyone can explain how this is being mis-read, that would be great:

The Fourteenth Amendment was the constitutionalization of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. Senator Howard introduced the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Congressional Globe, Senate, 1st Sess. 39th Cong. 2893:

Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.​
EXACTLY
"foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States"
is not a list, foreigners is not a stand alone class, it's modified by "aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors...", which is in apposition to foreigners.

If the children of foreigners were excluded, why did no one object?
 
Jun 2012
41,958
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Barsoom
Actually Howard did not say that and Howard also did not create his own grammar rule regarding commas.

And again regarding jurisdiction:

The word "jurisdiction" keeps being thrown around. The year was 1866, the jurisdiction throwers have yet to address partial jurisdiction, territorial jurisdiction, and the context of jurisdictional laws vis-a-vis political jurisdiction, which is what the 39th Congress used and they used the term interchangeably with the term allegiance.​
 
Jun 2012
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Barsoom
The dumbest argument I have seen by liberals is using the children born of diplomats without understanding what it means and how it applies to children born of any aliens. They both regard the same jurisdiction.