Trump's China grudge match may be spinning out of control

Oct 2010
68,106
27,931
Colorado
#1
Tariffs, schmeriffs, what I want to know is which nations will pick up the slack when China stops buying US Treasury Bonds?

Trump's China grudge match
may be spinning out of control
Donald Trump the Dow Man and Donald Trump the Tariff Man found themselves back on a collision course Monday as U.S. markets tanked and fear of a full-scale trade war between the world’s two largest economies reemerged with a vengeance.​
The Dow Jones industrial average on Monday plunged 618 points, or roughly 2.7 percent, after a flurry of belligerent tweets from President Trump — and quick retaliation from China in the form of new tariffs — threw gut punches at hopes for a deal between the two nations.​
The sell-off framed a central conflict inside the White House — and seemingly within the president’s own mind. Trump loves a booming stock market, which he tracks obsessively, and views it as an indicator of success on par with his approval rating. At the same time, he loves his power to unilaterally impose tariffs, and sees winning tough concessions from China as key to his 2020 reelection bid.​
Worries are also growing that Trump and Chinese president Xi Jingping may have fundamentally, miscalculated, allowing their trade talks to become a political duel with a logic of its own.​
“Investors have always assumed that these are rational actors who will eventually realize that it’s in nobody’s best interest to escalate this any further,” said Megan Greene, chief economist at Manulife Asset Management. “But that could turn out to be wrong.”​

More: Trump's China grudge match may be spinning out of control
 
Nov 2005
8,998
3,481
California
#2
The escalation in trade tensions between the U.S. and China wiped more than $1 trillion from global markets in just one day.​
Wall Street saw a massive sell-off on Monday as investors responded to an escalating trade battle between the U.S. and China, after Beijing announced it would be slapping tit-for-tat tariffs on $60 billion of U.S. goods.
Concluding a session of steep losses, the Dow Jones Industrial Average ended down by 618 points, or 2.38 percent, marking the biggest one-day loss for the blue-chip index since January.​
At the closing bell, the S&P 500 had dipped 2.4 percent and the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite ended its worst day this year, down 3.4 percent.​
The dramatic trading session saw companies with the greatest exposure to China — such as Dow stalwarts Boeing and Caterpillar — take the largest hits. The tech sector also took a beating, with Apple, United Technologies and Cisco all down around 5 percent.​
The escalation in trade tensions between the U.S. and China wiped more than $1 trillion from global markets in just one day. Stock exchanges across the world have witnessed intense volatility over the past few weeks, with all three major indices in the U.S. seeing an extended sell-off as investors parsed the likelihood of a resolution to months of trade negotiations between the world's two largest economies.​
"We've never taken in 10 cents [from China] until I was elected," President Donald Trump told reporters at the White House on Monday when asked about the ongoing trade war. "We're taking in billions of dollars in tariffs. I love the position that we are in, we've gone up a lot since our great election."​
While Trump has repeatedly asserted that China pays the tariffs, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow acknowledged this weekend that U.S. consumers end up paying for the administration's tariffs on Chinese goods, telling "Fox News Sunday" in an interview that "Both sides will suffer on this."​

Dow ends the day down 618 points after dramatic day of losses

American people are footing a large chunk of the tariff bill...
It wiped out more than $1 trillion from global markets in one day and he wants to crow about "billions"???

Trump...
Freakin' clueless...
 
Apr 2013
38,364
26,347
La La Land North
#3
I can't find it now and I wonder if it was a retweet or something but one of the many Trump tweets I read today went on about how good the friendship is between Xi and him. They tried to backtrack on the agreement but he wouldn't allow it so they got mad. But he is sure that with his economic stable geniuses going to China to talk some more, it will all be over in a month.

But then he completely changed his tone this afternoon and evening. The story now (via tweet of course) is that China messed with him and he won't put up with that so he shoved it up their backsides. But keep in mind that with the invincible economy he has created this will be disastrous for China and a tiptoe through the tulips for the US because he's wonderful and stuff.
 
Jul 2014
14,962
9,173
massachusetts
#4
Trump has an election next year, Xi doesn't.
Trump is using the tactics he used to force subcontractors to settle for less than he owed them.
Big Guy could bully a subcontractor, but China isn't a subcontractor, China can wait til Trump is gone.
 
Apr 2014
3,170
1,371
redacted
#7
Tariffs, schmeriffs, what I want to know is which nations will pick up the slack when China stops buying US Treasury Bonds?

Trump's China grudge match
may be spinning out of control
Donald Trump the Dow Man and Donald Trump the Tariff Man found themselves back on a collision course Monday as U.S. markets tanked and fear of a full-scale trade war between the world’s two largest economies reemerged with a vengeance.​
The Dow Jones industrial average on Monday plunged 618 points, or roughly 2.7 percent, after a flurry of belligerent tweets from President Trump — and quick retaliation from China in the form of new tariffs — threw gut punches at hopes for a deal between the two nations.​
The sell-off framed a central conflict inside the White House — and seemingly within the president’s own mind. Trump loves a booming stock market, which he tracks obsessively, and views it as an indicator of success on par with his approval rating. At the same time, he loves his power to unilaterally impose tariffs, and sees winning tough concessions from China as key to his 2020 reelection bid.​
Worries are also growing that Trump and Chinese president Xi Jingping may have fundamentally, miscalculated, allowing their trade talks to become a political duel with a logic of its own.​
“Investors have always assumed that these are rational actors who will eventually realize that it’s in nobody’s best interest to escalate this any further,” said Megan Greene, chief economist at Manulife Asset Management. “But that could turn out to be wrong.”​

More: Trump's China grudge match may be spinning out of control
I sincerely hope it all works out best for the US, but I strongly doubt it will.
 
Nov 2005
8,998
3,481
California
#8
The thing to keep in mind about President Trump, as he thrashes around like a weak swimmer in a strong current, is that he has no idea what he’s doing. None. Not a clue.

I know that he can be clever politically, in a tactical sense. I know that his lies are often both deliberate and effective. I know that his utter shamelessness can sometimes come off as some kind of warped genius. But the only thing that’s profound about Trump is the truly spectacular depth of his ignorance. As evidence, take a glance — if you dare — at your 401(k).

The president’s decision last week to unilaterally boost tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese imports produced an entirely predictable response — retaliatory tariffs from Beijing on $60 billion worth of U.S. products, a freakout by the financial markets and a screaming plunge in the Dow and other major indexes.

The administration’s trade talks with China had reportedly been going well and were supposed to be nearing an end. Trump accused the Chinese of trying to renege on concessions at the last minute, but the president’s history suggests otherwise. Veterans of the high-stakes world of New York real estate have told me about what they described as Trump’s standard negotiating practice — pitching some kind of fit at the very last minute, when the other party thought things were settled, in hopes of bullying his way to a better deal.

That might work with a subcontractor who doesn’t have the power to say no, or even with a fellow developer who vows on the spot never to do business with Trump again. But would any skilled negotiator think such a stunt would work with China, the world’s second-greatest economic power? Wouldn’t the Chinese government have to react in kind, if only as a matter of sovereign pride? And wouldn’t startled investors conclude that their fear of a serious trade war — the kind with no winners, only losers — had been realized?

I assume Trump realizes that China isn’t really “paying” the tariffs and that the cost is in fact borne by U.S. consumers, who will pay higher prices for made-in-China goods. Either the president constantly lies about this on his Twitter feed, hoping to fool the gullible, or he’s even more clueless about trade than I imagined.

Here are a few confident predictions: In the end, Trump will have succeeded only in further spooking the skittish financial markets. If there is a U.S.-China deal, it will be no more favorable — perhaps less favorable, I fear — than the deal Trump could have gotten before his little power play. And if there’s not a deal, well, the president will spend the summer trying to badger the Federal Reserve into cutting interest rates in an attempt to keep the economy from sliding into recession.

Meanwhile, Trump will scramble to ease the pain he is causing his red-state supporters to suffer. He said Monday he would somehow channel billions of dollars in what amount to welfare payments to farmers whose livelihood depends on selling soybeans and other products to China. This is typical Trump — make a mess, then try to clean it up. It is no way to run a mom-and-pop store, let alone a great nation.

It was Jeb Bush who warned that Trump would be “a chaos president,” and he was right. Alas for the world, the administration’s willy-nilly approach extends beyond trade policy.

One of Trump’s most significant foreign-policy decisions was to withdraw last year from the nuclear deal that the Obama administration had reached with Iran — even though the Trump administration acknowledged that the Iranians had been faithful to the agreement. Iran and other signatories are still observing the 2015 deal’s terms, yet Trump has steadily increased U.S. pressure on the Iranian economy. But to what end?

Predictably, Tehran is bristling. As tensions rise, world leaders have become concerned that the United States and Iran could bluster and blunder their way into armed hostilities. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo crashed a meeting of European Union foreign ministers Monday to ease the diplomats’ fears. Reportedly, he failed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ccf55cd3818c

All that Trump "winning"...
#sarcasm
 
Sep 2017
1,073
430
Pennsylfaani
#9
The economy falling apart would be a net benefit to pretty much everyone except the (((ruling class.))) What we need desperately is the destruction of this world order, damn the treasures and whatever baubles will be lost.
 

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