Two Wyoming coal mines close, send 700 workers home after bankruptcy filing

RNG

Apr 2013
38,644
26,634
La La Land North
Solar panels on your roof requires that you prepay you electric for 8 to 10 years making it unattainable for the masses. Giant solar farms are a ecological nightmare far beyond just recycling (though whether or not they actually get recycled remains to be seen since most of our "recycled" garbage still ends up either burned or buried. Nuclear is the best path forward. You should visit the works of Michael Shellenberger and other ecomodernists who acknowledge that making energy more expensive is an inevitable failure.
How are giant solar farms an ecological nightmare?

Did you solve the nuclear waste problem? There are solutions but the environmental equivalent of anti-vaxxers argue against any and all fixes.
 
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Dec 2014
27,840
15,338
Memphis, Tn.
Nuclear is the only forever option. Solar is a disaster in the making once all those panels start piling up in landfills. It also requires a lot of land that damages habitat, and birds burst into flames flying over them.
Solat panels have an average life span of about 30 years. Although not particularily easy to do they can be recycled.
 
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Dec 2014
27,840
15,338
Memphis, Tn.
As Far As Clean Air And Water
The United States Is As Clean As Any Industrial Nation There Is
So You Folks Must Not Be Thinking Clearly

All Any Of You Eco-Frauds Do Is Stop, Yell, And Complain
So We Can Only Infer What You're Really Thinking
Or What Kind Of Imaginary Future World You Un-Realistically May Envision

This Is What The Environmental Protectors Left Behind In N. Dakota

View attachment 4271

And Obama's Inauguration
In Ariel Views, I Thought It Snowed

View attachment 4272

Looks Like You Environmentally Conscious
Have Trouble Enough Wiping Your Own Ass

Why yes, looks just like an abadoned strip mine, I can see that.:lol::lol::lol::lol::cool:

Do you people TRY to look just as ridiculous as possible?
 
Mar 2013
10,140
10,948
Middle Tennessee
Timmy Treadwell, Ursine Cuisine

Only spoiled brats whose attitudes have degenerated into the wordview of primitive savages personify wild beasts.

WTF are you talking about ?? YOU'RE the one that brought environmental concerns in to the discussion of renewables. I'm merely asking WHAT is the damage done by current methods ??
 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
68,560
28,349
Colorado
How are giant solar farms an ecological nightmare?

Did you solve the nuclear waste problem? There are solutions but the environmental equivalent of anti-vaxxers argue against any and all fixes.
As far as I understand, the waste is going to be lifted by powerful nuclear rockets that burn hydrogen I think, launched into the sun, and if there's a malfunction during liftoff, no worries. And f**k thorium, too expensive, will never work.
 
Feb 2007
5,581
3,143
USA
Solar panels on your roof requires that you prepay you electric for 8 to 10 years making it unattainable for the masses. Giant solar farms are a ecological nightmare far beyond just recycling (though whether or not they actually get recycled remains to be seen since most of our "recycled" garbage still ends up either burned or buried. Nuclear is the best path forward. You should visit the works of Michael Shellenberger and other ecomodernists who acknowledge that making energy more expensive is an inevitable failure.
1. Actually, the return on investment in the US for anyone investing in and installing PV solar varies quite more substantially than your claimed 8 to 10 years, depending on numerous factors such as the cost of grid-based electricity it is replacing, the geographic location it is installed at, what percentage of electricity it is replacing, the system size and associated purchase & installation costs, if any battery storage is used, the loan-related interest on the capital investment, if state and/or federal subsidies are utilized, and if any net-metering-related savings is applicable...among other factors. Indeed, that ROI could be as little as 3 years or as much as 15 to 20 years. But, typically after that period, there is a net savings that lasts as long as the system components last. And, such an investment is really no different in terms of a long-term money savings goal than, say, someone investing in a more fuel efficient furnace, or more efficient air conditioning, or even adding more insulation to their home. And, since the "masses" tend to get their electricity from the grid anyway, the utility companies could instead make that investment in PV solar instead of the homeowner...of which they are doing across the US as I write this.

2. You have pointed to a single, dated, and poorly-referenced article, all about one of only two central tower-related thermal solar systems in the US. (The article you cited did not point to the supposed study which assumingly detailed how that supposed 6,000 killed bird figure was determined. And a similar-though smaller-system is the Crescent Dunes plant in Nevada.) And yet, whatever ecological issues regarding that single system must, somehow, be applied to all large-scale solar-based systems in the US?

3. Your implied claim that PV solar panels will, mostly, end up in landfills is mere conjecture, and nothing more.

4. If "nuclear is the best path forward," then you should have no difficulty in demonstrating that mere unsubstantiated belief to be true.

5. Michael Shellenberger has had a rather clear tendency of downplaying the human health and ecological concerns surrounding nuclear power, while also being rather unsuccessful in demonstrating that solar- and wind power-based energy systems are more expensive than nuclear energy.

:rolleyes:
 
Feb 2007
5,581
3,143
USA
That is an unnecessarily alarmist view, and wrong. Yes, natural gas might increase in cost, but it will be in the range of small percentages. There are lots of underutilized gas sources, so many in fact that the US and Canada are rapidly ramping up gas liquefaction plants to allow transport to Asia and Europe by ship. These puppies cost several Billion dollars to build, so rest assured long and deep analysis was done before committing to such an expenditure.
I was certainly curious about what your opinion is concerning those claims in said article. But, I guess time will tell what happens in and to the natural gas industry in the future.
 
Feb 2007
5,581
3,143
USA
As far as I understand, the waste is going to be lifted by powerful nuclear rockets that burn hydrogen I think, launched into the sun, and if there's a malfunction during liftoff, no worries. ...
Oh, no worries at all. We will just add that nuclear waste to our environment and bodies...no differently than when a space probe loaded with a plutonium reactor exploded during launch back in the 1970's. Such potential launch failures will give us all a healthy green glow.

:zany:
 
Feb 2007
5,581
3,143
USA
And here is another interesting article concerning coal...

Coal left Appalachia devastated. Now it’s doing the same to Wyoming.

Vulture capitalists are sucking value from a dying industry.

By David Roberts

Jul 9, 2019, 8:30am EDT

...

Wyoming is facing a potential crisis. Coal mines have shut down, hundreds of people are out of work, unemployment offices are overwhelmed, and there appears to be worse to come.

The coal industry, long seen as a friend and economic linchpin in the state, is falling apart, and the very communities that have supported it most are getting screwed over in the process.

This wasn’t supposed to happen in Wyoming. After all, it’s not like Appalachian coal country (West Virginia, eastern Kentucky, and Pennsylvania, along with eastern Ohio and parts of Alabama, Maryland, Tennessee, and Virginia).

Appalachia, which has been ground into codependent poverty by the coal industry over the course of a century, has been declining, in coal output and employment, for decades. Lately it has only gotten worse, as companies declare bankruptcy, executives get healthy bonuses, polluted coal mines are abandoned, and miners and retirees are denied long-promised health benefits and pensions.

...

Continued here:

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/7/9/20684815/coal-wyoming-bankruptcy-blackjewel-appalachia
 
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May 2019
417
76
USA
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Oh, no worries at all. We will just add that nuclear waste to our environment and bodies...no differently than when a space probe loaded with a plutonium reactor exploded during launch back in the 1970's. Such potential launch failures will give us all a healthy green glow.

:zany:
Posted at 1 am from electricity generated by your solar panels I am sure. :lol:

In the mean time, there is still no refuting the comparison between energy costs in Green Germany and Evil France. In fact, Germany is so concerned about the price of electricity going forward with their scheme that they are currently considering putting a price cap on it just to stop the run away cost they are experiencing.