When u r out of ammo, ur gun is a club

May 2018
200
22
usa
#1
when you're so exhausted that you dont detect an enemy (whom you would have noticed had you not been fatiqued) it's often fatal You can only carry just so much gear and still be able to run, drop prone (ie, being shot at or maybe "just" at risk of being spotted) jump up, repeat. Regardless of how "superior" a 308 or 12 ga might be for a given situation, there's lots MORE situations where it's not waf, cause you can't carry enough ammo for it(much less for both of them) along with the 40+ lbs of water, food, survival gear, armor, night vision, etc, that you'll need to last even just one week. The 308 ball ammo that's available is intended for use in belt fed machineguns. So the acceptable accuracy standard for same is 3" at 100 yds. That means that you get at best, 12" groups at 400 yds, without the problems of wind, range estimation, target movement, barriers covering some of the enemy's body, mirage, rain, snow, smoke, dust, up and down hill angles. So you're to miss ( a LOT) with such ammo, at a mere 300m, well within the range of a scoped, sound-suppressed AR shorty, the gun and ammo for which weigh half as much as the 308 stuff.

Looters and game (damn them!) are not going to hang around and let you go GET "the right gun for the job". YOu're going to have to attempt the job with what you've got, and if the job is cover using enemies at 100 yds and all you have is a shotgun (even with slugs and rifle sights) you're going to lose. Ditto if all you have is a bolt action (most likely)

The 20" barrel of a 308 is just BARELY long enough to get 168 gr hpbt match ammo to enough velocity to make it a reasonably effective rd at ranges a bit beyond the reach of a 10" barreled, scoped AR15 in 223. You'll need 10" of silencer to do a decent job of suppressing those 308 loads. A 30" barreled gun is basically a bipod-only clunk, of very little use when you need fast responses, to enemies. especially at night.

The 308's all lack a decent .22lr conversion unit, and so do all the weirdo calibers like the .300 blackout, 6.8, blah blah. If you want to have the odds on your side, 90% of your "fighting' better be subsonic, silenced ambushes, popping 1-2 guys in the head, at night, from 50m or less, using your night vision (when they dont have any) and your luminous sights, which they also aint got.

there lots more dogs, cats, livestock and small game than there are elk, moose and big bears, guys. So the .22lr is the round of choice for most of that. The 223 is reserved for fighting (of which you'd better see very little, especially in daylight, or the odds are very bad for you) and for those times (which better be very few) when you can't bait in the animal to .22lr/braining type distances (ie, 40m or less) .22lr and 12 ga wont pierce concealable armor. The 223 will, very easily. Buckshot and .22's don't pierce steel-belted tires, or even windshield's at much of an angle or distance. The 223 does so easily, to many times as great a distance.

the suppressed 223 has very little flash at night. The subsonic .22lr has none (again, if you're holding shut the breech bolt with your thumb. To have death whisper to 1-2 of your buddies, out of the dark, is a very demoralizing thing to have happen to you. A .22lr in your torso, without modern medical care, is going to mean death from infection. The .30 rd box magazine of the AR15 .22lr conversion unit can be emptied at you in 5 seconds, guys, semi-auto.
 
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May 2018
200
22
usa
#2
yes, I AM a "survivalist" and no, i'm NOT (ever) going to let you take my AR15 and neither will my kid, who is MUCH younger than me.

308 ammo is 18 rds to the lb, 223 is 35 rds to the lb, 12 ga shells are 10 to the lb (and VERY bulky) and 60 gr subsonic .22lr ammo is 100 rds to the lb. I'll take a "mere" subsonic .22 load, in a silenced autoloader, for shtf, over ANY noisy gun. Just have brains enough to stick to either really thick brush or darkness. and the ranges will be short, making the whisper-quiet .22lr autorifle far more effective than almost anyone can imagine. When you're a looter and get shot with a .22lr, as soon as you weaken, your fellow looters are going to finish you off and divide up your stuff. They will go find some place that's not as effectively guarded as the current one. :)
 
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May 2018
200
22
usa
#6
half the country is zombie enough to vote for a pos like clinton Longarms are for shtf, For everything else, a pistol is sufficient. Or put it this way, for anything but shtf, either a pistol suffices or you couldn't handle it anyway or whether or not it gets handled doesn't matter (ie, sports). This column IS about warfare. To you, the priveleged few, war is only far away, participated in only by soldiers. However, to most of humanity, war is nearby, very personal and quite likely to effect you at some point in your life.
 
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Sep 2015
13,624
4,962
Brown Township, Ohio
#9
when you're so exhausted that you dont detect an enemy (whom you would have noticed had you not been fatiqued) it's often fatal You can only carry just so much gear and still be able to run, drop prone (ie, being shot at or maybe "just" at risk of being spotted) jump up, repeat. Regardless of how "superior" a 308 or 12 ga might be for a given situation, there's lots MORE situations where it's not waf, cause you can't carry enough ammo for it(much less for both of them) along with the 40+ lbs of water, food, survival gear, armor, night vision, etc, that you'll need to last even just one week. The 308 ball ammo that's available is intended for use in belt fed machineguns. So the acceptable accuracy standard for same is 3" at 100 yds. That means that you get at best, 12" groups at 400 yds, without the problems of wind, range estimation, target movement, barriers covering some of the enemy's body, mirage, rain, snow, smoke, dust, up and down hill angles. So you're to miss ( a LOT) with such ammo, at a mere 300m, well within the range of a scoped, sound-suppressed AR shorty, the gun and ammo for which weigh half as much as the 308 stuff.

Looters and game (damn them!) are not going to hang around and let you go GET "the right gun for the job". YOu're going to have to attempt the job with what you've got, and if the job is cover using enemies at 100 yds and all you have is a shotgun (even with slugs and rifle sights) you're going to lose. Ditto if all you have is a bolt action (most likely)

The 20" barrel of a 308 is just BARELY long enough to get 168 gr hpbt match ammo to enough velocity to make it a reasonably effective rd at ranges a bit beyond the reach of a 10" barreled, scoped AR15 in 223. You'll need 10" of silencer to do a decent job of suppressing those 308 loads. A 30" barreled gun is basically a bipod-only clunk, of very little use when you need fast responses, to enemies. especially at night.

The 308's all lack a decent .22lr conversion unit, and so do all the weirdo calibers like the .300 blackout, 6.8, blah blah. If you want to have the odds on your side, 90% of your "fighting' better be subsonic, silenced ambushes, popping 1-2 guys in the head, at night, from 50m or less, using your night vision (when they dont have any) and your luminous sights, which they also aint got.

there lots more dogs, cats, livestock and small game than there are elk, moose and big bears, guys. So the .22lr is the round of choice for most of that. The 223 is reserved for fighting (of which you'd better see very little, especially in daylight, or the odds are very bad for you) and for those times (which better be very few) when you can't bait in the animal to .22lr/braining type distances (ie, 40m or less) .22lr and 12 ga wont pierce concealable armor. The 223 will, very easily. Buckshot and .22's don't pierce steel-belted tires, or even windshield's at much of an angle or distance. The 223 does so easily, to many times as great a distance.

the suppressed 223 has very little flash at night. The subsonic .22lr has none (again, if you're holding shut the breech bolt with your thumb. To have death whisper to 1-2 of your buddies, out of the dark, is a very demoralizing thing to have happen to you. A .22lr in your torso, without modern medical care, is going to mean death from infection. The .30 rd box magazine of the AR15 .22lr conversion unit can be emptied at you in 5 seconds, guys, semi-auto.
I agree that all fighting should be subsonic. When fighting is supersonic you can't hear them coming until after they pass.

edit: I just heard a swarm of bees pass by my ear.
 
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Likes: 1 person
May 2018
200
22
usa
#10
This is what to much television, and video games does to the brain of young boys that still live with mommy, have no job, and to much time on their hands.
I"m 65, a disabled vet, you pos, and I can whip you with one hand held behind me, guaranteed.
 
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Likes: 1 person

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