Why are the godless allowed in our universities?

Feb 2014
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You realize you are trying to have an intelligent conversation with a red baiting Calvinist right?


E. Pluribus Unum
:confused: I am confused. What do you mean? I didn't think anyone knew about Calvinist. However, that is an interesting subject when arguing the importance of owning private property and an unwillingness to spread the wealth. For darn sure Christianity is not one religion and the Russians had a very good reason for opposing Orthodox Christianity. Just as we had good reasons for fighting against British control.
 
Jul 2014
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My understanding is that most, if not all universities began as religious institutions for the purpose of educating people on God and the cosmos, among others.

More recently, atheistic ideologies such as Marxism have crept their way into our universities and public institution - is there any way in which we could remove the godless, and godless ideologies such as Marxism, from our universities - and make them places for learning about the higher, rather than the lower and baser?

As a wonderful example of the heathen barbarism which is allowed to infiltrate our universities:

Some private colleges began as divinity schools, but no state colleges or universities began that way. And many if not most private colleges had no divinity school.
So your premise is faulty.
 
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Feb 2014
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Yes.

The law of the Israelites was very capitalist, in regards to others' proprety rights and personal autonomy.

The Communist notion of "abolishing all private property" is no where in the Bible. Being against "greed" (not "property") does not a "communist" make.


I'm not sure what you mean.

Money only has as much value as people have faith in it; by itself it is just "paper and metal" - much as how "rich" means nothing but how much one theoretically has in comparison to someone else, and "wealth" is likewise contingent on people transacting in some way with others.

If every person stopped transferring their wealth to a hypothetically "wealthy" person, or if people decided that the currency was "worthless", then the "wealth" would cease to exist.
I thought the Bible makes it very clear that we should not be worldly? Theology is about our souls and God, not worldly matters. Jesus definitely did not say get a college degree and go for the highest pay you can possibly get. Jesus was not a Calvinist! He opposed the Pharisees who sold their souls to enjoy wealth and power and worked for Rome instead of the poor.

“Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.…There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need” (Acts 4:32–35 ESV). That is not a government enforcing communism, but the ideal is communism. That is to share in common with everyone and be as one. Some of us think that is a higher morality than capitalism. We find fault with Calvinism and without Calvinism, we would not have capitalism. The church was strongly opposed to living for money.

Before Calvinism the church's influence curbed capitalism in ways we might want to repeat today.

the medievals banned usury, or charging interest on loans. This was based on the Bible saying it was a sin to take advantage of the misfortune of a brother Christian.

Second, the medievals insisted on the "just and fixed price" for goods. Although this was the market price, everyone agreed to stick by it. You were not permitted to undercut or to overcharge.

Third, work was organised around the guilds system. There were no limited companies owned by a small group of capitalists trading their shares on the stock exchange. The workers owned the means of production.
 
Feb 2014
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In God we trust.

I am fine with that. It is how we determine the nature and will of God, and the nature of man, that is the point of contention. If it were not for science we would still have very short life spans and a poorly developed consciousness with little hope for improvement. Jesus arguing we do not need to wash our hands and all the talk of demons during the time of Jesus, sure did not help humans deal with reality in a helpful way. Without science there is superstition and that is not a good thing.

On the other hand, science can be firm grounds for good moral decisions. We choose the right thing more often when we know what that is. Deforesting the planet and destroying the oceans is poor moral judgment.
 
Jul 2014
15,617
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massachusetts
Yes.

The law of the Israelites was very capitalist, in regards to others' proprety rights and personal autonomy.

The Communist notion of "abolishing all private property" is no where in the Bible. Being against "greed" (not "property") does not a "communist" make.


I'm not sure what you mean.

Money only has as much value as people have faith in it; by itself it is just "paper and metal" - much as how "rich" means nothing but how much one theoretically has in comparison to someone else, and "wealth" is likewise contingent on people transacting in some way with others.

If every person stopped transferring their wealth to a hypothetically "wealthy" person, or if people decided that the currency was "worthless", then the "wealth" would cease to exist.
Didn't the ancient Israelites have the Jubilee Year?
No one could own real estate, it was all leased with 49 year leases.
At the end of 49 years, it was the Jubilee Year, and all the real estate was evenly divided among the males.
And all slaves and prisoners were freed, and all debts were forgiven.

A complete reset of the economy every 49 years, not exactly Karl Marx, but not Adam Smith either.

More like the end of a monopoly game, where all the deeds and all the money goes back in the box, and everyone gets the same $1500 to start a new game.
 
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I never said that, and I believe the confusion began in your reply to me since I had never mentioned communism is my post but rather responded to the comment of atheism being of a Marxist ideology, which I refuted. I wasn't attempting to argue communism at all, whether it based on Christian values or not, I believe that would be another discussion. What I do know is atheism is not based on any political ideology, it is simply not believing in a God. You assume too much, where did I ever say communism is more materialistic than capitalism. With that said where is it less? They just want to distribute it more evenly around. They go to the extreme of one not having more than the other, if you think about it , that does not mean they are any less materialistic. One works hard for the individual, the other works just as hard for the whole, both in the hopes of improving their condition.
 
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Feb 2014
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Didn't the ancient Israelites have the Jubilee Year?
No one could own real estate, it was all leased with 49 year leases.
At the end of 49 years, it was the Jubilee Year, and all the real estate was evenly divided among the males.
And all slaves and prisoners were freed, and all debts were forgiven.

A complete reset of the economy every 49 years, not exactly Karl Marx, but not Adam Smith either.

More like the end of a monopoly game, where all the deeds and all the money goes back in the box, and everyone gets the same $1500 to start a new game.
I remember when debts were forgiven after 7 years. Christians are not following the Bible as closely as they may think, but we did better. We forgave debt after 7 years and still include this in bankruptcy law.

This is the manner of remission: Every creditor shall cancel what he has loaned his neighbor. He is not to collect anything from his neighbor or brother, because the LORD's time of release has been proclaimed.
Going from what you said and the seven-year rule, the real owner is God, not humans. Thank you for that information.

However, Jews can own non-Jews as slaves for life and their children inherit them.

Lev 25:44-46
44As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves.45You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property.46You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.
I think a good argument can be made for the religion to be a tribal religion and not at all including everyone. Time and again the Bible speaks with a tribal mentality. Rules for Hebrews do not apply to everyone. The Bible really is an "us" against "them" book and the Quran carries on these Bible truths with some corrections. Those who fought for the South and maintaining slavery based their arguments on the Bible and fought for God just as much as the North fought for God.
 
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You realize you are trying to have an intelligent conversation with a red baiting Calvinist right?


E. Pluribus Unum
Really, and you know me how to make such a comment? You do realize that E Pluribus Unum does not mean In God We Trust right? Were you making another point? I''ll give you a get out of jail card for free. LOL
 
Feb 2014
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Oregon
I never said that, and I believe the confusion began in your reply to me since I had never mentioned communism is my post but rather responded to the comment of atheism being of a Marxist ideology, which I refuted. I wasn't attempting to argue communism at all, whether it based on Christian values or not, I believe that would be another discussion. What I do know is atheism is not based on any political ideology, it is simply not believing in a God. You assume too much, where did I ever say communism is more materialistic than capitalism. With that said where is it less? They just want to distribute it more evenly around. They go to the extreme of one not having more than the other, if you think about it , that does not mean they are any less materialistic. One works hard for the individual, the other works just as hard for the whole, both in the hopes of improving their condition.
I like what you said, but only if people are made very idealistic will they work hard for the whole. That was a fact of life that hit the Hippies hard. It is true in all communal living situations. Buddhist and Christian monks can be completely devoted to communal living and praying, but a handful of young pot-smoking middle-class youths are unlikely to perform their chores with such devotion.

I think the history of Sparta makes the very best argument for having money and property and free choice. They had the strongest tyranny of any other group of humans. Without money and private property, no individual has liberty and power. Sparta was completely dependent on slaves. Therefore they were completely dependent on military might, and in a short time, there was no more Sparta. Their numbers became too small to maintain their defense.

Athens argued about the good and bad of communal or private property, and I think those who believe in private property are right. But, capitalism without morals is also doomed to fail. For sure Rome lasted longer than Sparta but it collapsed, as have all successful civilizations collapsed. We are really being stupid by ignoring history and science. It is a joke to pat ourselves on the back for being so smart. High IQ's do not equal being intelligent.