Why does the state involve itself with marriage?

Mar 2018
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Grayson
Wait. What's that? YOU think that debating is picking a fight? You think that my post was a hissy fit? Oh, sweetie, if you thought that was a hissy fit you just haven't LIVED long enough. I'd like to agree with you, but then I don't want to be wrong, whereas YOU'RE fine with that.
I'll tell you a secret. When I read insulting posts--when I read wind-baggish, pompous, bovine, quadrated, pejorative posts, such as yours, I get a little worked up---just a tad bit. So you'll have to excuse me.
Maybe I'll have more patience with you tomorrow, but today I'm fresh out.
In the meantime, you can just think of me as a challenge. ;)
You are the pot what calls the kettle black. You shouldn't be insulting if you don't want to be replied to in insulting language. On this thread, I have not been proven to be wrong. Can't say the same for you. You were a smart ass and picked a fight. I can be as nasty as you... or civil. Your call.
 
Nov 2005
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2,646
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Did I say I thought I was Abraham Lincoln? What dumbassery! ROTFLMFAO. You should be a comedian.
Did I say that you thought you were Abraham Lincoln? No.
You present buffoonery with such an allegation and even more ignorance at laughing at your own strawman argument.


You poke at Dave Barton
I poke at Dave Barton based on his actions / writings.
So if you want to defend Dave Barton's actions / writings, then do so.
Otherwise, you are trying to fight apple with orange.


I simply showed that many successful people don't have a degree from Harvard. You were obviously unable to draw the connection that I responded to your silliness.
But you didn't do that. Not at all.
I never even mentioned Harvard. Nor did I denigrate Dave Barton based on "Harvard".

You have a SERIOUS problem comprehending what is actually going on.


I'm not the one who found faults with the 14th Amendment. Congressmen, judges, historians, lawyers, and commentators have been exposing it for YEARS.
Yes. YOU ARE taking fault with the 14th amendment.
Your claims regarding what others are supposedly doing are meaningless and unsubstantiated.


What do you think that "bar certified lawyers" have a monopoly on understanding? When Rosa Parks made a big deal about where to ride on a bus, how many bar certified lawyers do you suppose disagreed with her and those attorneys that took up what was thought to be an unwinnable case?
When Rosa Parks made a big deal about where to ride on a bus, there were a lot of certified lawyers who disagreed with her.
There were also a lot of certified lawyers who agreed with her.

I am not saying that just because some lawyers disagree with you, you are wrong.
I am saying you cannot provide any professional agreement with your assertions.
Do you get the difference?

I am asking you to document any legal / established / court precedent agreeing with your criticism of the 14th amendment.
 
Likes: leekohler2
Nov 2005
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California
There is nothing wrong with Dave Barton. He's a human being. I don't make Gods out of mortals. How utterly ridiculous!
There is something wrong with Dave Barton.
He is a liar. He claims expertise he doesn't have and he makes up lies to benefit people who want to be fooled.
 
Jul 2008
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Virginia Beach, VA
One book out of how many that he wrote? Yeah, I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but you can bet your ass if I quoted from some book the History News Network endorsed and you didn't like it, you'd bust your ass finding some negative criticism in order to try and refute the most obvious.
Then do that instead of quoting a known fraudster like Barton. EVERY book he has written has been ridiculed by actual historians, The Jefferson Lies was just the most egregious
 
Mar 2018
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117
Grayson
There is something wrong with Dave Barton.
He is a liar. He claims expertise he doesn't have and he makes up lies to benefit people who want to be fooled.
No, the man HAS the expertise. When Louis Beam went into court and represented himself in a sedition trial (remember he was fighting the federal government in court) Beam was found NOT GUILTY. That wasn't bad for a man who had never set foot in a law school. That, my good man, is expertise.

You want to attack Barton over ONE BOOK. How many others did he write? An attorney goes into court. If most of his work is litigation, he can lose 20 percent of the time (that means his research was no better than Barton's book research since his arguments were colossal failures) and be referred to as a well renowned litigator. I'm mostly research and investigation. Still I've had to fight 32 cases over the course of my life in court. Most were B.S. cases so they are barely worth mentioning. It works out to about 1.7 cases per year. I never lost and never got over-turned on appeal. But, as a litigator I'm not nearly as good as some guys that lost a third of their cases.

You're not being honest and to continually harp on irrelevant B.S. here shows that you don't really have a valid argument. NONE of it has to do with the OP. Side comments and trying to discredit sources instead of countering with facts may impress those equally deluded as you. It's a trait you share with the radical right, BTW. If you can link Barton's one classic fail to a marriage license, I will truly be amazed.
 
Jul 2008
18,431
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Virginia Beach, VA
There is nothing wrong with Dave Barton. He's a human being. I don't make Gods out of mortals. How utterly ridiculous!
There IS something wrong with David Barton. He publishes garbage and then people like you eat it up. He miseducates large portions of the population and gets paid to do it.

When I was growing up in the 60s and 70s conservatives had honest intellectual men and women you could trust. Now it is the most anti intellectual party I think that as ever existed. It is a party that puts people like Barton up on a pedestal as some kind of expert when the fact is he is just the opposite.

It started when the GOP aligned with the Religious Right and became in your face with their lauding of idiocy with the nomination of Palin as VP and now has resulted in a Trump presidency.

Goldwater (one of my political heroes) is spinning in his grave.
 
Mar 2018
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117
Grayson
There IS something wrong with David Barton. He publishes garbage and then people like you eat it up. He miseducates large portions of the population and gets paid to do it.

When I was growing up in the 60s and 70s conservatives had honest intellectual men and women you could trust. Now it is the most anti intellectual party I think that as ever existed. It is a party that puts people like Barton up on a pedestal as some kind of expert when the fact is he is just the opposite.

It started when the GOP aligned with the Religious Right and became in your face with their lauding of idiocy with the nomination of Palin as VP and now has resulted in a Trump presidency.

Goldwater (one of my political heroes) is spinning in his grave.
Did it ever dawn on you that you are lying and that absolutely destroys your credibility?

There's not a swinging soul on this earth that I put on a pedestal. EVERY man you meet is a sinner, a liar, and a hypocrite. Hell dude, had I quoted Jesus himself, you would have had to discredit him. You really think these boards are a debating platform. Yet if this were a formal debate, I won many posts ago.

You search the halls of Congress and tell me of one person you would put on a pedestal. Look at both sides. Read some of the cases of the federal judges, appeals court judges, and what some of the whackos on the United States Supreme Court believe. How about the Executive department? When was the last time you heard Donald Chump utter a single sentence that you thought to be wholly true?

You try to peg me as being part of the religious right. Another poster on this board, attempting to discredit my sources, claimed that I was a leftist for citing the Congressional Budget Office. So I looked that one up on Wikipedia:

"Whereas politicians on both sides of the aisle have criticized the CBO when its estimates have been politically inconvenient,[2][3] economists and other academics overwhelmingly reject that the CBO is partisan or that it fails to produce credible forecasts. There is a consensus among economists that "the CBO has historically issued credible forecasts of the effects of both Democratic and Republican legislative proposals."

Congressional Budget Office - Wikipedia

You people who spend your lives on the Internet wanting a fight have serious emotional issues. I'm not on the right or the left. Dave Barton is a freaking man. I don't put the silly S.O.B. on a pedestal. He's been wrong and he, like every other swinging Richard interprets the facts so as to best defend his agenda. The facts themselves are the only thing that is relevant. People sit on a jury and find snitches with a criminal record, being paid for their testimony to be credible, mostly because what the guy says supports what they want to believe.

All I can tell you is that I've cited enough legal sources that if the OP's question were decided upon the merits of the case, I'd win and those thinking that marriage is a right would have lost. Furthermore, even you have not offered to meet my wager on how the issue will be decided if it makes the Supreme Court during Chump's tenure. That tells me all I need to know. Nobody needs for me to sling skeet at you to figure it out for themselves.
 
Jul 2008
18,431
12,160
Virginia Beach, VA
Did it ever dawn on you that you are lying and that absolutely destroys your credibility?

There's not a swinging soul on this earth that I put on a pedestal. EVERY man you meet is a sinner, a liar, and a hypocrite. Hell dude, had I quoted Jesus himself, you would have had to discredit him. You really think these boards are a debating platform. Yet if this were a formal debate, I won many posts ago.

You search the halls of Congress and tell me of one person you would put on a pedestal. Look at both sides. Read some of the cases of the federal judges, appeals court judges, and what some of the whackos on the United States Supreme Court believe. How about the Executive department? When was the last time you heard Donald Chump utter a single sentence that you thought to be wholly true?

You try to peg me as being part of the religious right. Another poster on this board, attempting to discredit my sources, claimed that I was a leftist for citing the Congressional Budget Office. So I looked that one up on Wikipedia:

"Whereas politicians on both sides of the aisle have criticized the CBO when its estimates have been politically inconvenient,[2][3] economists and other academics overwhelmingly reject that the CBO is partisan or that it fails to produce credible forecasts. There is a consensus among economists that "the CBO has historically issued credible forecasts of the effects of both Democratic and Republican legislative proposals."

Congressional Budget Office - Wikipedia

You people who spend your lives on the Internet wanting a fight have serious emotional issues. I'm not on the right or the left. Dave Barton is a freaking man. I don't put the silly S.O.B. on a pedestal. He's been wrong and he, like every other swinging Richard interprets the facts so as to best defend his agenda. The facts themselves are the only thing that is relevant. People sit on a jury and find snitches with a criminal record, being paid for their testimony to be credible, mostly because what the guy says supports what they want to believe.

All I can tell you is that I've cited enough legal sources that if the OP's question were decided upon the merits of the case, I'd win and those thinking that marriage is a right would have lost. Furthermore, even you have not offered to meet my wager on how the issue will be decided if it makes the Supreme Court during Chump's tenure. That tells me all I need to know. Nobody needs for me to sling skeet at you to figure it out for themselves.
Then prove that I am lying...it’s that simple.
 
Likes: foundit66
Jul 2008
18,431
12,160
Virginia Beach, VA
Did it ever dawn on you that you are lying and that absolutely destroys your credibility?

There's not a swinging soul on this earth that I put on a pedestal. EVERY man you meet is a sinner, a liar, and a hypocrite. Hell dude, had I quoted Jesus himself, you would have had to discredit him. You really think these boards are a debating platform. Yet if this were a formal debate, I won many posts ago.

You search the halls of Congress and tell me of one person you would put on a pedestal. Look at both sides. Read some of the cases of the federal judges, appeals court judges, and what some of the whackos on the United States Supreme Court believe. How about the Executive department? When was the last time you heard Donald Chump utter a single sentence that you thought to be wholly true?

You try to peg me as being part of the religious right. Another poster on this board, attempting to discredit my sources, claimed that I was a leftist for citing the Congressional Budget Office. So I looked that one up on Wikipedia:

"Whereas politicians on both sides of the aisle have criticized the CBO when its estimates have been politically inconvenient,[2][3] economists and other academics overwhelmingly reject that the CBO is partisan or that it fails to produce credible forecasts. There is a consensus among economists that "the CBO has historically issued credible forecasts of the effects of both Democratic and Republican legislative proposals."

Congressional Budget Office - Wikipedia

You people who spend your lives on the Internet wanting a fight have serious emotional issues. I'm not on the right or the left. Dave Barton is a freaking man. I don't put the silly S.O.B. on a pedestal. He's been wrong and he, like every other swinging Richard interprets the facts so as to best defend his agenda. The facts themselves are the only thing that is relevant. People sit on a jury and find snitches with a criminal record, being paid for their testimony to be credible, mostly because what the guy says supports what they want to believe.

All I can tell you is that I've cited enough legal sources that if the OP's question were decided upon the merits of the case, I'd win and those thinking that marriage is a right would have lost. Furthermore, even you have not offered to meet my wager on how the issue will be decided if it makes the Supreme Court during Chump's tenure. That tells me all I need to know. Nobody needs for me to sling skeet at you to figure it out for themselves.
You attach any credibility to David Barton (and you have) then you don’t have a clue.
 
Nov 2005
8,086
2,646
California
No, the man HAS the expertise.
So you claim.


When Louis Beam went ...
Knock off the non-topical distractions.
Just because there is a small fraction of a percentage of people who succeeded in an "expert" area when they didn't utilize formal training degrees DOES NOT prove anything regarding Barton.


You want to attack Barton over ONE BOOK.
This is another dumb lie of yours.
The information I quoted demonstrated he has had these problems throughout his career. It's not just "one book".


How many others did he write?
What does the answer to your question prove?
He writes these books not for academia or experts. He writes these books for the religious right who want to believe in a lie.

Can you show me ANY of his books which are lauded as expert material???


You're not being honest and to continually harp on irrelevant B.S. here shows that you don't really have a valid argument.
You toss in all sorts of irrelevant comments regarding Abraham Lincoln and similar junk, and then you throw that accusation against me???
:rolleyes:


NONE of it has to do with the OP. Side comments and trying to discredit sources instead of countering with facts may impress those equally deluded as you. It's a trait you share with the radical right, BTW. If you can link Barton's one classic fail to a marriage license, I will truly be amazed.
YOU were the one who brought Barton up.
Now, instead of doing the honest thing and admitting that he should not be cited, you are making him a platform for you to stand on.
:rolleyes:
 
Likes: leekohler2