Why I think the Shutdown Is Wrong-headed and Will do More Harm than Good

Feb 2020
1,783
663
Houston
If you want to debate me about my stance this is a good place to do it. If it makes you mad that I say it, you should have never clicked on it after reading the title.

I'll list my reasons a post at a time on this thread, but I won't do it one every couple of minutes like a getting laid story.

1) It isn't really a shutdown.

I just walked my dogs with my wife at about 9:30 PM our time. It was like grand central station, we live close to an exit of our suburban neighborhood and cars were coming in and out so frequently that some of them had to slow down to wait for another car to pass us so they could give us room. I said, "where are all these people going, everything is closed." She said, "I bet their going to each other's houses to have drinks since the bars or closed."

Of course.

Essential business only, but self selected? That's why I went to the essential Italian restaurant and got my wife her essential chicken parm with linguine and my essential spaghetti with meat sauce and meat bwalls. Then I went to the essential liquor store and got my essential bourbon. We didn't need nothin' else because we had been to the essential Walmart and the essential big box store the day before.. Of course nothing would stop us from going several times a day if we were bored.

Most skilled workers, techicians, etc can likely justify their job essential. The professionals who work in offices can telecommute. Government workers know they will be paid even if they are non-essential. So who is really "shut down?"

Those who can least afford it.

Servers for example. I went to get some Tex Mex yesterday. At least twenty cars in the parking lot waiting for food orders. Only the manager was there running to keep up with everything. I told him, "you should get some servers to come out, they can score some tips." He said, "above my pay grade, sir." meaning corporate is afraid of being sued so it dumps on management. It's a chuy's we've been eating there for over twenty years. Two of the servers are a young couple who are working their way through college, living on a shoestring to avoid debt. This will put a big crimp in their lives.

Non-grocery retail and service like hair and nail, craft and cloth stores, clothes stores, etc. People who work in the mall stores selling shoes and books and body jewelry. The mall restaurants are closed because they cannot do take out in a closed mall. They are the very small time hustlers that make our lives better for very little money and now that's been taken away from them.

Undocumented workers may do OK or they may crash and burn. It depends. They will certainly be willing to defy the lockdown order but will their employers? Construction retailers are open, can't stop people from building a new patio deck on their time off just because human contact is the same as mass murder.

All we're doing is sacrificing the jobs of people already on the margins economically speaking. They are the victims.

If this is so much more serious than other pandemics, not even in the same ballpark as H1N1 or seasonal flu, why not a real shutdown? Everyone stays home, forget about going to the hospital, that will kill more people than it saves. Let small teams of exceptionally brave EMT's answer calls from people who show symptoms, provide them with medical supplies to give out and allow no one to leave their houses. If people are hungry they can put a sign up and the NG will toss MRE's and cases of bottled water on their yard, maintaining safe distance..

That's what a shutdown to save lives would look like, not this silly shit.
 
Jul 2018
3,351
1,079
Earth
Don't you know that over 3 billion people are on a lock-down around the world? Imagine the 4.5 billion who are not on a lock-down getting infected and dying over the next three weeks. Would you still be upset over this silly shit?
 
Mar 2020
1,429
371
Land of Freedom
If this is so much more serious than other pandemics, not even in the same ballpark as H1N1 or seasonal flu
It is not. You know what is really funny? People are pissed off about the Easter grand re-opening. Would they prefer to stay home till Christmas?
 
Mar 2020
1,429
371
Land of Freedom
Don't you know that over 3 billion people are on a lock-down around the world? Imagine the 4.5 billion who are not on a lock-down getting infected and dying over the next three weeks. Would you still be upset over this silly shit?
OK, So you imagine/believe 4.5 billion people will get infected and die in the next 3 weeks. Do you sound realistic to yourself? You sound so fearful to me.
 
Mar 2020
1,429
371
Land of Freedom
If this is so much more serious than other pandemics, not even in the same ballpark as H1N1 or seasonal flu, why not a real shutdown?
It is just hard to be scared of little stuff after you have survived cancer, I think. I myself have been through DVT, PE (blood clots) Pneumonia, and Dengue Fever over the last 10 years.
 
Feb 2020
1,783
663
Houston
Don't you know that over 3 billion people are on a lock-down around the world? Imagine the 4.5 billion who are not on a lock-down getting infected and dying over the next three weeks. Would you still be upset over this silly shit?
That would be horrible but the chance of that happening is too small to take into account for planning purposes. The harm done to workers who just want to keep working is real and happening right now.

You did not address a single one of the things I said and if that was supposed to be a reply to it all, you just repeated the worst-case scenario talking points.
 

RNG

Forum Staff
Apr 2013
42,343
30,875
La La Land North
If you want to debate me about my stance this is a good place to do it. If it makes you mad that I say it, you should have never clicked on it after reading the title.

I'll list my reasons a post at a time on this thread, but I won't do it one every couple of minutes like a getting laid story.

1) It isn't really a shutdown.

I just walked my dogs with my wife at about 9:30 PM our time. It was like grand central station, we live close to an exit of our suburban neighborhood and cars were coming in and out so frequently that some of them had to slow down to wait for another car to pass us so they could give us room. I said, "where are all these people going, everything is closed." She said, "I bet their going to each other's houses to have drinks since the bars or closed."

Of course.

Essential business only, but self selected? That's why I went to the essential Italian restaurant and got my wife her essential chicken parm with linguine and my essential spaghetti with meat sauce and meat bwalls. Then I went to the essential liquor store and got my essential bourbon. We didn't need nothin' else because we had been to the essential Walmart and the essential big box store the day before.. Of course nothing would stop us from going several times a day if we were bored.

Most skilled workers, techicians, etc can likely justify their job essential. The professionals who work in offices can telecommute. Government workers know they will be paid even if they are non-essential. So who is really "shut down?"

Those who can least afford it.

Servers for example. I went to get some Tex Mex yesterday. At least twenty cars in the parking lot waiting for food orders. Only the manager was there running to keep up with everything. I told him, "you should get some servers to come out, they can score some tips." He said, "above my pay grade, sir." meaning corporate is afraid of being sued so it dumps on management. It's a chuy's we've been eating there for over twenty years. Two of the servers are a young couple who are working their way through college, living on a shoestring to avoid debt. This will put a big crimp in their lives.

Non-grocery retail and service like hair and nail, craft and cloth stores, clothes stores, etc. People who work in the mall stores selling shoes and books and body jewelry. The mall restaurants are closed because they cannot do take out in a closed mall. They are the very small time hustlers that make our lives better for very little money and now that's been taken away from them.

Undocumented workers may do OK or they may crash and burn. It depends. They will certainly be willing to defy the lockdown order but will their employers? Construction retailers are open, can't stop people from building a new patio deck on their time off just because human contact is the same as mass murder.

All we're doing is sacrificing the jobs of people already on the margins economically speaking. They are the victims.

If this is so much more serious than other pandemics, not even in the same ballpark as H1N1 or seasonal flu, why not a real shutdown? Everyone stays home, forget about going to the hospital, that will kill more people than it saves. Let small teams of exceptionally brave EMT's answer calls from people who show symptoms, provide them with medical supplies to give out and allow no one to leave their houses. If people are hungry they can put a sign up and the NG will toss MRE's and cases of bottled water on their yard, maintaining safe distance..

That's what a shutdown to save lives would look like, not this silly shit.
I will use the same argument as I use for gun laws. Do laws against bank robbery stop all bank robberies? So we may as well get rid of those laws by that logic. And you can replace bank robberies with virtually any other regulation or law.

It was said early that the social distancing would not be an instant cure. And in fact the plea was to flatten the curve. Conditions in NY did not achieve that so the health system is getting overwhelmed. They are no longer responding to cardiac/respiratory shutdowns because they are too busy working on someone who is still alive. The curve got higher than the healthcare capacity.

But still, too little too late but don't stop so that the extent the curve exceeds the ability will be minimized.
 
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RNG

Forum Staff
Apr 2013
42,343
30,875
La La Land North
It is not. You know what is really funny? People are pissed off about the Easter grand re-opening. Would they prefer to stay home till Christmas?
Stayin' alive! I accept Glenn Beck's offer though.

All those Faux News talking heads saying yeah, the old folks don't mind dying to help their kids be richer. Well, did any of them poll the old folks?
 
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Jul 2018
3,351
1,079
Earth