Women Aren't a Monolith

Dec 2015
14,629
13,536
Arizona
#1
Something has been bothering me--a lot--so maybe our posters can help me wrap my head around this article from The Guardian:
Women aren't a monolith – and the white women supporting Kavanaugh prove it

It would make sense that the people most likely to believe the testimony of Dr Christine Blasey Ford would be the ones who look like her: middle-aged, white women.

But polls and even a cursory glance at cable news show this not to be the case.

Fox News host Martha MacCallum said that following Ford’s testimony, she kept hearing from moms who “fear due process is dead”. If Brett Kavanaugh is denied a supreme court confirmation over Ford’s sexual assault allegations, these women fear their sons could be subjected to “an unfair precedent” one day.

It’s a view very much condoned in the White House. Donald Trump – in addition to vocally defending Kavanaugh – recently used the moment to push back on his own more than a dozen female accusers, and bemoaned“the trauma for a man” involved in having such claims aired.

Donald Trump Jr, when asked if he was more worried for his sons or daughters, said: “Right now, I’d say my sons.”

In other words, they’re thinking more of men than women, and no small number of white women seem happy to follow suit.

A new ad released Thursday by CatholicVote.org goes from footage of adorable babies growing into men, to Kavanaugh saying Ford’s claims have him “totally and permanently destroyed”. Viewers are told: “If it can happen to him, it can happen to our sons, our brothers, husbands, fathers. It can happen to you.”

That last line – “It can happen to you” – would seem to apply much more to Ford’s fate than Kavanaugh’s where moms are concerned, since one in three women will experience sexual violence in her lifetime and perpetrators are overwhelmingly male.

So many were shocked earlier this week when a poll found that while minority voters overwhelmingly believe Ford over Kavanaugh, a breakdown of the data by gender revealed white women were nearly as likely to believe Kavanaugh as Ford.

Specifically, the poll found 46% of white women believe Ford and 43% believe Kavanaugh – “Not a large difference at all when you take the margin of error into account,” Tim Malloy, who oversaw Quinnipiac’s national polling, told the Guardian.
“White women are not by any means a monolithic voting bloc,” Kohler told the Guardian. Rather, they’re profoundly influenced by education, religion and especially marital status.

The emphasis fits nicely with a recent study of women’s voting patterns, which found that while single women tend to cast votes with the fate of all women in mind, women married to men, and white women in particular, often vote on behalf of their husbands and families, research shows.

More than two-thirds (68%) of all women, compared to 53% of men, say they would definitely not vote for a candidate accused by multiple people of sexual harassment. But nearly half (48%) of Republican women said they would consider voting for such a candidate. That’s compared to just 14% of Democratic women who would.

So my questions are 1) Do mothers have so little faith in their sons? 2) Why do women vote for candidates just because their husbands do? AND lastly 3) What's with this "It could happen to you vs. It could happen to your sons/husbands?
I'm interested in hearing a man's perspective.
 
Apr 2013
35,901
24,391
Left coast
#3
The reason the average GOPer is more worried about sons than daughters is that their sons are the important ones.
 
Likes: catus felis
Jun 2012
41,958
15,163
Barsoom
#4
Liberals have no respect for the rule of law, which is based on the burden of evidence, and are more favorable for the US to become a banana republic, which eschews both of the above, that sons are the ones in peril.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Dec 2016
4,639
2,387
Canada
#5
Something has been bothering me--a lot--so maybe our posters can help me wrap my head around this article from The Guardian:
Women aren't a monolith – and the white women supporting Kavanaugh prove it

It would make sense that the people most likely to believe the testimony of Dr Christine Blasey Ford would be the ones who look like her: middle-aged, white women.

But polls and even a cursory glance at cable news show this not to be the case.

Fox News host Martha MacCallum said that following Ford’s testimony, she kept hearing from moms who “fear due process is dead”. If Brett Kavanaugh is denied a supreme court confirmation over Ford’s sexual assault allegations, these women fear their sons could be subjected to “an unfair precedent” one day.

It’s a view very much condoned in the White House. Donald Trump – in addition to vocally defending Kavanaugh – recently used the moment to push back on his own more than a dozen female accusers, and bemoaned“the trauma for a man” involved in having such claims aired.

Donald Trump Jr, when asked if he was more worried for his sons or daughters, said: “Right now, I’d say my sons.”

In other words, they’re thinking more of men than women, and no small number of white women seem happy to follow suit.

A new ad released Thursday by CatholicVote.org goes from footage of adorable babies growing into men, to Kavanaugh saying Ford’s claims have him “totally and permanently destroyed”. Viewers are told: “If it can happen to him, it can happen to our sons, our brothers, husbands, fathers. It can happen to you.”

That last line – “It can happen to you” – would seem to apply much more to Ford’s fate than Kavanaugh’s where moms are concerned, since one in three women will experience sexual violence in her lifetime and perpetrators are overwhelmingly male.

So many were shocked earlier this week when a poll found that while minority voters overwhelmingly believe Ford over Kavanaugh, a breakdown of the data by gender revealed white women were nearly as likely to believe Kavanaugh as Ford.

Specifically, the poll found 46% of white women believe Ford and 43% believe Kavanaugh – “Not a large difference at all when you take the margin of error into account,” Tim Malloy, who oversaw Quinnipiac’s national polling, told the Guardian.
“White women are not by any means a monolithic voting bloc,” Kohler told the Guardian. Rather, they’re profoundly influenced by education, religion and especially marital status.

The emphasis fits nicely with a recent study of women’s voting patterns, which found that while single women tend to cast votes with the fate of all women in mind, women married to men, and white women in particular, often vote on behalf of their husbands and families, research shows.

More than two-thirds (68%) of all women, compared to 53% of men, say they would definitely not vote for a candidate accused by multiple people of sexual harassment. But nearly half (48%) of Republican women said they would consider voting for such a candidate. That’s compared to just 14% of Democratic women who would.

So my questions are 1) Do mothers have so little faith in their sons? 2) Why do women vote for candidates just because their husbands do? AND lastly 3) What's with this "It could happen to you vs. It could happen to your sons/husbands?
I'm interested in hearing a man's perspective.
When you have a system of oppression well established (like patriarchy), it's not hard to reason that some women...especially if they are older, will tend to be fatalistic about it and decide it's better to work within the patriarchy than try to fight it. They may fear physical violence from a Kavanaugh-like husband at home if they go off and join some march or even vote differently than their husbands...who knows! But, when times get tough, some people will become more conservative and less rebellious, and this is no doubt part of the reason why the rightwing capitalist class has deliberately destroyed the large middle working class of our youth! One of the reasons sociologists cite for the relative public unrest of the 1960's was that a whole range of people from students to blue collar and white collar workers felt secure, and so felt a freedom to complain...even publicly about anything and everything they weren't happy with: a neverending war on the other side of the world; racial inequality; the lack of equal rights for women; even gays were starting to go public and demand their rights be respected by police and government authorities; and then there was pollution, animal rights, marijuana and narcotics.....a whole host of causes could turn people out in the streets at a time in history when the majority of people were having the best it had ever been!

So some smart guy working in one of the rightwing think tanks reminded his employers that in poor countries, most people are afraid of their bosses and their rulers, and so even though the middle class provided the purchasing power to keep the wheels of capitalism turning, it would be better to take a haircut and turn the system into chaos in order to take back control of the people....or at least make them shutup! And that's where I think conservative women who are likely to support an obvious miscreant like Brett Kavanaugh come in! Rather than work in the fellow interests of their sisters, they'd rather cut a deal for themselves, their children and their coterie of like-minded friends. So, they'll avoid going out at night, refrain from talking back to their husbands and hope for better treatment, and be seen publicly supporting the clown who wants to expand executive power even further and turn Trump or any future president into a fuhrer.
 

Panther

Forum Staff
Jul 2013
5,412
3,134
North Texas
#6
This is an age where either gender lives can be ruined besides an allegation of rape. Simple unfortunate bad timed tweets, misunderstood jokes, a second too long of a hug, the wrong voice inflection or lack of context, being accused of being a racist, or really anything once trivial now getting mixed with the serious can ruin lives.

Innocent before being proved guilty in a court of law means little anymore, but a lot to me. Not a media trial made up of my shaming peers, but a court trial made up by a jury of impartial peers. This is why democrats are pushing me grudgingly back into the Republican fold.

Well done.
 

Panther

Forum Staff
Jul 2013
5,412
3,134
North Texas
#7
When you have a system of oppression well established (like patriarchy), it's not hard to reason that some women...especially if they are older, will tend to be fatalistic about it and decide it's better to work within the patriarchy than try to fight it. They may fear physical violence from a Kavanaugh-like husband at home if they go off and join some march or even vote differently than their husbands...who knows! But, when times get tough, some people will become more conservative and less rebellious, and this is no doubt part of the reason why the rightwing capitalist class has deliberately destroyed the large middle working class of our youth! One of the reasons sociologists cite for the relative public unrest of the 1960's was that a whole range of people from students to blue collar and white collar workers felt secure, and so felt a freedom to complain...even publicly about anything and everything they weren't happy with: a neverending war on the other side of the world; racial inequality; the lack of equal rights for women; even gays were starting to go public and demand their rights be respected by police and government authorities; and then there was pollution, animal rights, marijuana and narcotics.....a whole host of causes could turn people out in the streets at a time in history when the majority of people were having the best it had ever been!

So some smart guy working in one of the rightwing think tanks reminded his employers that in poor countries, most people are afraid of their bosses and their rulers, and so even though the middle class provided the purchasing power to keep the wheels of capitalism turning, it would be better to take a haircut and turn the system into chaos in order to take back control of the people....or at least make them shutup! And that's where I think conservative women who are likely to support an obvious miscreant like Brett Kavanaugh come in! Rather than work in the fellow interests of their sisters, they'd rather cut a deal for themselves, their children and their coterie of like-minded friends. So, they'll avoid going out at night, refrain from talking back to their husbands and hope for better treatment, and be seen publicly supporting the clown who wants to expand executive power even further and turn Trump or any future president into a fuhrer.
Perhaps so? But i know and work with tough conservative women who are the equal of any man when it comes to formulated opinions. They're not a monolith in thinking or by action. They speak their minds, sometimes in support of Trump and other times thinking he is the biggest shrieking idiot on the globe.

But (for al their rebellious spirit) everyone of them believe in the law (even those who served time behind bars. Yes quite a few conservative woman i work with were convicted on drug charges or other crimes) and fair play. Things they see to be in short supply today.

You cannot boss them around, even if your their husband or the boss at work. They aren't stupid nor are they mindless followers.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Nov 2012
10,330
8,483
nirvana
#8
This is an age where either gender lives can be ruined besides an allegation of rape. Simple unfortunate bad timed tweets, misunderstood jokes, a second too long of a hug, the wrong voice inflection or lack of context, being accused of being a racist, or really anything once trivial now getting mixed with the serious can ruin lives.

Innocent before being proved guilty in a court of law means little anymore, but a lot to me. Not a media trial made up of my shaming peers, but a court trial made up by a jury of impartial peers. This is why democrats are pushing me grudgingly back into the Republican fold.

Well done.
Simple unfortunate bad timed tweets, misunderstood jokes, a second too long of a hug, the wrong voice inflection or lack of context, being accused of being a racist, or really anything once trivial now getting mixed with the serious can ruin lives.

You're kidding right?

Fox News and right wing talk radio uses this exclusively as there shtick.

I'm pretty sure every word in that paragraph was used by the Trump campaign against Clinton.
 
Dec 2015
14,629
13,536
Arizona
#9
This is an age where either gender lives can be ruined besides an allegation of rape. Simple unfortunate bad timed tweets, misunderstood jokes, a second too long of a hug, the wrong voice inflection or lack of context, being accused of being a racist, or really anything once trivial now getting mixed with the serious can ruin lives.

Innocent before being proved guilty in a court of law means little anymore, but a lot to me. Not a media trial made up of my shaming peers, but a court trial made up by a jury of impartial peers. This is why democrats are pushing me grudgingly back into the Republican fold.

Well done.

Yes yes. That's the conventional wisdom...errr...myth. Blah blah...lives can be ruined. The operative word is "CAN". Let's talk about that. Is Kavanaugh's life ruined? How about Clarence Thomas's life? In 1994 when the first round of accusations of rape was slung at Bill Cosby...was his life ruined? Trump's life? O'Reilly's life after the accusation in 2004? Priests' lives when the boys started coming forward? Roger Ailes got taken down too, after he negotiated $40million from Fox to step down--POOR GUY. Apparently, all these hysterical women aren't REALLY ruining lives--except maybe their own. You want other examples of ruined lives...cuz I can go on...?
Besides, if no one is believing these hysterical, emotional female wrecks--why would anyone's LIFE be ruined? No one believed ME when I was raped. No one believed my 80-year-old friend, Pauline, who was raped at 15 and just told her husband about it after 60 years of marriage. No one believed Larry Nassar's victims for YEARS until over 100 girls came forward. It took about 35 of Cosby's "ladies" before anyone believed them and when it went to trial the jury couldn't agree.

Now, let's discuss the whole presumption of innocence? How come that doesn't work both ways? Thousands of innocent rape victims in this country every year, but they don't deserve the presumption of innocence? I think it's about time people stopped making assumptions and started believing every child and every woman. It's time to encourage women to report their rape immediately, put on their big girl panties and tell their story. I don't imagine for a minute they will be believed, but it's the right thing to do.
AND if the girls DO come forward---if the women DO get examined and a rape kit is used----guess what? That kit gets put on a shelf. When tested, DNA evidence contained by rape kits can be an incredibly powerful tool to solve and prevent crime. It can identify an unknown assailant and confirm the presence of a known suspect. It can affirm the survivor's account of the attack and discredit the suspect. It can connect the suspect to other crime scenes and identify serial offenders. It can exonerate the wrongfully convicted. Here's the problem. There hundreds of thousands of kits that haven't been processed. What does that tell you about our priorities?
Defining the Rape Kit Backlog | ENDTHEBACKLOG
 
Apr 2013
35,901
24,391
Left coast
#10
This is an age where either gender lives can be ruined besides an allegation of rape. Simple unfortunate bad timed tweets, misunderstood jokes, a second too long of a hug, the wrong voice inflection or lack of context, being accused of being a racist, or really anything once trivial now getting mixed with the serious can ruin lives.

Innocent before being proved guilty in a court of law means little anymore, but a lot to me. Not a media trial made up of my shaming peers, but a court trial made up by a jury of impartial peers. This is why democrats are pushing me grudgingly back into the Republican fold.

Well done.
So Obama is a Muslim Kenyan?
 

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