Women take no respnsibility

May 2013
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Some years ago, working in a factory situation, I was door operator on a large molding press. The part being made was large and difficult to get right. An appliqué was placed in the mold and then hot plastic injected onto it. Quirks required special treatment of the appliqué before and after the injection molding. It was common in this factory for some to play cds. I found myself in a situation with a young nubile girl dancing inches away from me to a song lyric of “l’m gonna ride that baloney all night long”.

One wrong move and I am fired and possibly arrested. I did control myself. I am not a sexual predator. I am a victim of sexual harassment in this situation.
"One wrong move"? Such as what? Exactly what invitation is a 'young nubile girl' extending to you by dancing? Exactly what rights do you believe her dancing gives you?





 
Dec 2016
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I mean....in a way that makes a woman feel attractive.

We are programed from birth to 'look attractive'. It's drummed into us from the first time our mothers gaze at us. Honestly....what mother wants a ugly frumpy daughter.

Look at TV and movies. The women are mostly attractive and built well. Look at the amount of beauty advertisements in all media areas. Check out the clothing and makeup ads in magazines and tv shows directed at teenage girls.

All of this conspires to make us feel bad about ourselves if we don't look good.

I have been a widow for a little over five months now, and I am still at least a year, probably more from having any interest in a man in any way other than a friend. BUT.....when I go out with friends or family, I still dress to 'look good'. I still put on makeup and do my hair. I simply feel better when I look good.

To be perfectly honest, lately I wish that widows weeds would come back into fashion. A woman could still look good while making it perfectly clear that she is in mourning.
Awesome! You covered a lot of bases there, and I can only add that 'mom's expectations' and market-driven media expectations felt later on in life cannot be separated from each other, except possibly a few immigrants who came from extremely poor and closed off countries that Big Business hadn't got around to monetizing yet!

For everyone else, mass media programming infiltrates our brains and our thinking and makes it impossible to distinguish innate human behavior from culture from pop media these days. I recall from a Youtube post of an ad and marketing critic, that one of the key, unnoticed changes in her eyes can be seen if we have some very old, antique photographs from more than a century ago. In particular, a family portrait that includes young children under five, shows that young children were being dressed in virtually the same clothes....same colors, same simple hairstyles! It wasn't until children started getting older...in or around the age of puberty that separating between male and female is viewed to be important....prior to the age of advertising that is!

Now that we're saturated with this crap, we have no other choice to buy blue clothing, toy cars, maybe a bat and a glove, for a boy/ and pink clothes, dolls, and maybe a dance or gym outfit, if the new baby is a girl. That doesn't imprint future expectations now does it?? What's significant is that, according to the most reliable information about sexual preferences and sexual orientation, the percentages of straight and gay remain the same, and were no different back in those dark ages when people did not think of young children as sexualized creatures who needed to be molded for their future expectations right from birth!

Your 2nd point only misses that a lot of men....self-centered and desperate men in particular...think that 'wanting to look good' and especially being willing to talk or chat in a friendly manner means "Yeah She Wants Me!" And, discovering otherwise can be everything from a letdown to a crushing disappointment that fills some social outcasts with desires for revenge. And that's what really makes this a serious topic AND one which...like it or not, MEN have a greater responsibility to behave responsibly.
 
Dec 2016
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So maybe a rule that allows rape in circumstances where a women looks "too hot"?
Is that where this is leading?
"I'm sorry, but if your appearance makes my penis twitch, all bets are off"

or are you looking for an "All Burka Dress code"
that's funny because I never saw you as a Sharia Law type.....
What galls me is that, whether it's on my Twitter feed, reddits, newsgroups or forums like this one, I see the same names and user names behind the women deserve it and the look what those muslims are doing posts!
 
May 2013
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Awesome! You covered a lot of bases there, and I can only add that 'mom's expectations' and market-driven media expectations felt later on in life cannot be separated from each other, except possibly a few immigrants who came from extremely poor and closed off countries that Big Business hadn't got around to monetizing yet!

For everyone else, mass media programming infiltrates our brains and our thinking and makes it impossible to distinguish innate human behavior from culture from pop media these days. I recall from a Youtube post of an ad and marketing critic, that one of the key, unnoticed changes in her eyes can be seen if we have some very old, antique photographs from more than a century ago. In particular, a family portrait that includes young children under five, shows that young children were being dressed in virtually the same clothes....same colors, same simple hairstyles! It wasn't until children started getting older...in or around the age of puberty that separating between male and female is viewed to be important....prior to the age of advertising that is!

Now that we're saturated with this crap, we have no other choice to buy blue clothing, toy cars, maybe a bat and a glove, for a boy/ and pink clothes, dolls, and maybe a dance or gym outfit, if the new baby is a girl. That doesn't imprint future expectations now does it?? What's significant is that, according to the most reliable information about sexual preferences and sexual orientation, the percentages of straight and gay remain the same, and were no different back in those dark ages when people did not think of young children as sexualized creatures who needed to be molded for their future expectations right from birth!

Your 2nd point only misses that a lot of men....self-centered and desperate men in particular...think that 'wanting to look good' and especially being willing to talk or chat in a friendly manner means "Yeah She Wants Me!" And, discovering otherwise can be everything from a letdown to a crushing disappointment that fills some social outcasts with desires for revenge. And that's what really makes this a serious topic AND one which...like it or not, MEN have a greater responsibility to behave responsibly.
Oh yes. The 'she wants ME!' mindset of some men is very annoying. I do not know if these men are simply ignorant or have ego problems, but I have run into this attitude more times than I care to count.

Decades ago I would handle it 'nicely and politely' as many times as necessary, but I find that as I grow older, I no longer have the patience to suffer fools gladly. These days I respond with a polite but firm 'no thank you'. If the man in question has any sense and leaves, no harm, no foul. If he doesn't however, he's going to walk away more convinced than ever that 'women are bitches' and probably never give a seconds thought to his part in creating that reality.
 
Dec 2016
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They make the legs appear longer, the display the butt at a better angle, and the fact that they are the furthest thing from sensible says 'sexy' the way a fur coat says 'money'.
Since I've always been health and fitness-focused, I have never had a liking for women wearing high heels! It's something I've argued with my wife about many times. Especially when you get to an age when you're having joint..especially knee problems, why the hell wear something that deliberately damages the joints and....I can tell you from earlier time when I coached a lot of high school-age runners that were just on the cusp of making it to an elite level, that the first thing to tell the girls was 'get rid of your damn high heels''.........at least until you're completely done with running and competing in track events,' because they cause the hamstrings and other muscle groups to shorten and make stress-injuries more common and more severe.
 
Dec 2016
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I can't resist your civil reply. Thank you for addressing the fact that some women use sex to get ahead and in some cases it is like setting out a dish of cookies and then objecting if someone nibbles on one. I am also very sure the few men who tried to convince me they were rich, were not rich. This thread could be very different if it were treated as an ethical issue. I do not believe it is ethical to use sex to get ahead, nor to seduce a woman with talk about wealth. We should not make others believe we will give want we have no intention of giving. However, it is an error to generalize the compliant to all women are irresponsible temptresses.

On the other hand, given my experience with men, I do not trust males. This is not an acceptance of the good old boys club, and some males are trustworthy of trust, but we should not be naive. Protecting ourselves has to be our own responsibility or we are at risk. The law doesn't come to our defense until it is too late.
The only thing I'll really disagree with you on is the burden of responsibility given to some women who have played the 'golddigger' role and used their looks and even sexuality for material benefit. And that is because we live in a capitalist society that favors aggression, individualism, selfishness, and even ruthlessness. And, if these aren't innately male characteristics, they certainly are character traits that men can and do wield much more successfully than women can!

So, if a woman uses deception, and sexual bartering for her own opportunities for advancement or as more common in the old days...marrying a repulsive, rich old bastard....like a certain one who occupies the White House right now....I don't feel a burning desire to heap scorn upon her and burn her at the stake...cause she's just trying to make her way in a man's world as best she can! And since the vote-blue-no-matter-who caucus has already intruded into this thread to mock and further castigate Donald's social-climbing wife, I can't accept that being heaped out on someone who came out of poverty and had only one option for success....and it wasn't modelling!

In many 'primitive' societies of the past, and also in the former state communist East Bloc nations until the end of the Cold War, one of the distinctive social features that anthropologists and ethnographers took note of was the boldness and bluntness of women. Main reason being that women who live or have lived in cultures where they weren't dependent on men materially, felt more freedom to engage in marriage and other relationships for purely physical and emotional reasons...and therefore the notion of marrying an older man who 'was of means' was unheard of.
 
Likes: Athena
Dec 2014
27,537
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Memphis, Tn.
:)

I understand, to some degree. "Lookism" is indeed drummed into women's heads from the time they are little girls. On the one hand, why not look good? But on the other hand, a woman, or a man, should be comfortable NOT looking good. And that seems to be very difficult for some women, my wife being one.

I really wish women could feel good about themselves when they aren't looking good. I've no idea how this dynamic can be changed. "Hippie chicks" gave it a good run. At one point, I thought women really had freed themselves from the absurdity of ... these:



I'm a body worker, and those things alter a woman's bones and muscles and not in a good way.
"One wrong move"? Such as what? Exactly what invitation is a 'young nubile girl' extending to you by dancing? Exactly what rights do you believe her dancing gives you?

Exactly.
 
Likes: catus felis
May 2013
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arkansas
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Harassment
It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.
Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.
Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.

I fail to see how a woman dancing while working falls under the definition of 'sexual harassment'. Unless of course she tied poor helpless webguy to a chair and forced a lap dance on him!
 
Dec 2015
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Arizona
Oh yes. The 'she wants ME!' mindset of some men is very annoying. I do not know if these men are simply ignorant or have ego problems, but I have run into this attitude more times than I care to count.

Decades ago I would handle it 'nicely and politely' as many times as necessary, but I find that as I grow older, I no longer have the patience to suffer fools gladly. These days I respond with a polite but firm 'no thank you'. If the man in question has any sense and leaves, no harm, no foul. If he doesn't however, he's going to walk away more convinced than ever that 'women are bitches' and probably never give a seconds thought to his part in creating that reality.

Funny story to share. Many years ago (when I was young, thin and cute) a girlfriend and I went out to dinner together--just to catch up and get away for a night. We ended up at a very nice Mexican restaurant. At a large table next to us there were several men--all dressed in suits and ties--having drinks--laughing. One leaned over and said "Hey we're in town for a convention and don't know much about Madison. Would you girls like to show us around, go back to the hotel and party a little?" We felt flattered but said "THANKS, but no thanks". AWWW...they were so disappointed. Blah blah.
When I got home I said to Mr. Clara, "Guess what? Ann and I got propositioned tonight!"
Without missing a beat, the hubby said: "Were they drunk?" He got an arm punch for that one!
 

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