Would you want an NHS?

How should health care be treated

  • 1) a human right provided for by the government and paid for with tax dollars

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • 2) not a right but the government should play a role in making health care affordable and available

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • 3) up to the individual and private charity and in no way a right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4) we live till we die , why not make free ice cream a right?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
Dec 2018
1,387
484
New England
Don't forget education! Starting with Clinton in America/and Blair in England, the so called "left" parties turned into the vanguard for strategies to privatize public services and institutions, that the right could not get through on their own.
Instead of 'government giveaways' to private interests, why not build public housing, improve public education instead of privatizing it, food co-ops( we have one close by) can teach poor people how to grow some of their own food and directly purchase the rest at wholesale prices for those who are and the worst scam of all - public financing for private health insurance corporations!
Sorry, you're talking to a charter parent. We need more school choice, not less. Market based solutions are exactly what public education needs.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Dec 2018
1,387
484
New England
Buying food isn't going to make you bankrupt. BTW, the government already provides food for people who need it. So, I guess people do have a right to food.

Also, I take issue with your use of the word "free". Nothing is "free". All we are discussing are better ways to pay for healthcare than our current system, which is the most inefficient in the civilized world. No one should have to go bankrupt because they become ill.
I agree with you; no one should go bankrupt paying for healthcare. That does not equate to an argument for a single payer system, IMO. Markets are more efficient than centrally planed and managed industries; it's been proven time and again all over the world.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Dec 2018
1,387
484
New England
Three points:
1. NatMoron has illustrated a classic Strawman Argument-- "free" does not exist
2. Exactly correct that there is a social obligation in a wealthy nation to provide for food, clothing, and shelter as basic human rights
3. One of the least recognized aspects of Obamacare was that bankruptcy from health care costs was almost eliminated
I think it should be obvious that my use of "free" in this context meant "free to the recipient." Your implied assertion that I don't think a food subsidy must be funded by someone is itself a straw man.

The mistake many of you on the left make is equating "social obligation" with "socialized (e.g. single payer) solutions." There are ways to work with the market rather than replacing it, and as markets are manifestly more efficient, it makes sense to try.
 
Apr 2015
1,729
2,011
Stockport. UK
I agree with you; no one should go bankrupt paying for healthcare. That does not equate to an argument for a single payer system, IMO. Markets are more efficient than centrally planed and managed industries; it's been proven time and again all over the world.
But not for a heath system.
If free market systems worked for health we surely would have seen it by now.
 
Likes: Clara007
Dec 2018
1,387
484
New England
But not for a heath system.
If free market systems worked for health we surely would have seen it by now.
Ah, no. We started with a heavily regulated system and never departed from that approach. The most likely reason we have never had a true market based solution is because there is considerable, doctrinal opposition to such ideas from (mostly) the Democrats. They see "for profit" and think "evil." It by their way of thinking, I suppose it is. When you're the "party of government," you want government to do more and more. Because after all, a dependent voter is a loyal voter.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Nov 2018
2,596
1,212
Montana
I agree with you; no one should go bankrupt paying for healthcare. That does not equate to an argument for a single payer system, IMO. Markets are more efficient than centrally planed and managed industries; it's been proven time and again all over the world.
Really? You do not receive your electricity and gas from regulated monopolies? You do not listen to radio or watch TV from regulated communication industries? You do not eat food or obtain drugs that are not subject to government regulation? You do not drive on public road and prefer private toll roads? You do not expect to receive Social Security? You prefer to watch unregulated baseball and football rather than national teams?
You prefer to buy insurance or securities that are not subject to regulation?
 
Nov 2018
2,596
1,212
Montana
Ah, no. We started with a heavily regulated system and never departed from that approach. The most likely reason we have never had a true market based solution is because there is considerable, doctrinal opposition to such ideas from (mostly) the Democrats. They see "for profit" and think "evil." It by their way of thinking, I suppose it is. When you're the "party of government," you want government to do more and more. Because after all, a dependent voter is a loyal voter.
You would prefer that there were no licensing or oversight of physicians, hospitals, or pharmacies? That is all regulation.
An unregulated and "free market" in medicine is an 18th century idea. This is the 21st century. Look up "Flexner Report" and see what a "free market" did to physician training.
 
Likes: MichaelT
Apr 2015
1,729
2,011
Stockport. UK
Ah, no. We started with a heavily regulated system and never departed from that approach. The most likely reason we have never had a true market based solution is because there is considerable, doctrinal opposition to such ideas from (mostly) the Democrats. They see "for profit" and think "evil." It by their way of thinking, I suppose it is. When you're the "party of government," you want government to do more and more. Because after all, a dependent voter is a loyal voter.
There is more than just the US health system, various governments over the past 150 years both left and right wing throughout the world have accepted that a free market system doesn't work for health because private health insurers don't want to deal with the sick and poor.
 
Nov 2018
2,596
1,212
Montana
I think it should be obvious that my use of "free" in this context meant "free to the recipient." Your implied assertion that I don't think a food subsidy must be funded by someone is itself a straw man.

The mistake many of you on the left make is equating "social obligation" with "socialized (e.g. single payer) solutions." There are ways to work with the market rather than replacing it, and as markets are manifestly more efficient, it makes sense to try.
You have the entire process mixed up. The effort at government regulation does not come first. The "free markets" fail and need to be rescued or resuscitated by government regulation. If you have any doubts about the value of regulation, I suggest you spend some time in a time machine and visit factories, financial institutions, meat packing plants, chemical plants, mining, and lumber industries of the 19th or 20th century. Perhaps you do not oppose child labor, worker exploitation or unsafe employment or bank failures and favor monopolies and worker exploitation. Might as well throw in racial discrimination in employment, education, commerce and housing to achieve the ideal "free market" you seem to envision.
 
Likes: Clara007
Dec 2018
1,387
484
New England
Really? You do not receive your electricity and gas from regulated monopolies? You do not listen to radio or watch TV from regulated communication industries? You do not eat food or obtain drugs that are not subject to government regulation? You do not drive on public road and prefer private toll roads? You do not expect to receive Social Security? You prefer to watch unregulated baseball and football rather than national teams?
You prefer to buy insurance or securities that are not subject to regulation?
You're confused, Biff. I'm not advocating for zero regulation of any market. That is a common error you folks make.
 

Similar Discussions